cross-posted from: https://piefed.social/c/technology@piefed.social/p/2533091/proton-to-re-interview-staff-about-ai-to-see-who-gets-to-keep-their-job
I’m sorry, WHAT??? I use Proton!!! YOU WERE SUPPOSED TO DESTROY THEM, NOT JOIN THEM!
I truly hope we’re being overly dramatic here because Proton has been a good service for me. I do not feel like moving everything to another service. At least I have my own domains, though.
Proton have been cunts for a long time my friend…
I believe they stopped being the good guys a while ago.
Yeah, Tuta are the good guys now.
Alas, when a company gets big it gets evil.
I’m prepared this time around, I use Protonmail with a custom domain, I’m ready to easily switch.
For the other stuff (Drive, Docs, Sheets, …) , I’m selfhosting.
I switched to Tuta during the last Proton scandal and never looked back.
I’ve been an early proton adopter and advocate. As well as Bitwarden. This constant need to move platforms is getting really old. Is Tuta worth it? Am I going to have to move in a year because they get private investors? Will they donate to omarchy in six months?
I’ve been with Tuta over a year now and have only seen it get better. But who knows what the future holds.
I have also stopped putting my eggs in one basket. I set up my own domains for email redirection via Tuta, so I can take the addresses with me wherever I go. Mullvad for VPN. Bitwarden for passwords. Set up my own onsite/off-site file backups. Stuff like that.
Trying to do things in a way that is still convenient but more flexible and modular, if that makes any sense.
I’ve been with tuta for a decade now and it just does its job.
Oh lovely, time to move all of my stuff over to something else
Really? Is nothing safe these days? I just switched my email to Proton recently from Gmail. It’s been a long time coming, and I still can’t ditch it completely bcz I have had it for over 10 years and some stuff still uses it.
The bubble can’t pop fast enough
So if I’m reading this right, Proton is re-interviewing their entire staff, focusing on how they’ve integrated AI into their workflow, and if they aren’t using AI as much as management wants they’re likely to lose their jobs?
That is extremely disappointing.
Posteo is suddenly looking very shiny.
Tuta is good. Waiting on their drive.
Does posteo support custom domains yet?
No and they don’t plan on it, as far as I know.
Ok yeah, and I understand why that is. I just need a custom domain or I’d be right there.
Wow, it’s almost like these companies want to destroy themselves.
Not a bad idea, only they are going to keep the wrong ones, the cheerleaders instead of the skeptics.
I kinda wonder about this because I get asked about ai at interviews and I tend to give sort of a balance perspective. Saying they have uses but have limitations and thier output has to be reviewed and checked. I keep wondering if that is sinking me for positions among my other buerocratic red flags.
I imagine it varies. I don’t ask about AI usage in interviews but if I did I would prefer a balanced answer.
Skepticism tells me you’re not going to try to vibe code something important or try to install unapproved models. Not being completely anti-AI in the interview tells me you’re not going to insult a manager when they’re being stupid.
Soooo happy that I invested the time and effort into self-hosting my own email server.
Until dovecot and/or postifx enshittify, that is.
To save people from diving into the Reddit swamp. Here is Proton’s response from a similar post over there:
Just to clarify, Proton is not doing layoffs and using AI as an excuse. We actually have a big shortage of talent and are actively hiring across the org: https://proton.me/careers#jobslist
AI is changing the tech industry and we, like everyone else, need to evolve our ways of working to remain effective in our industry, and to deliver features faster to users.
Proton exists to protect privacy and give people control over their digital lives. That commitment guides how we evaluate and use AI, including the tools we use internally. We see opportunities to build better products and work more effectively, but using AI requires judgment about privacy, security, accuracy, and where it adds actual value.
We are assessing how colleagues are adapting to these tools, what support they need, and who can help lead this work. We’re looking for concrete improvements in their work and thoughtful decisions about when to use AI - and when not to.
To do this, we’re in the process of figuring out who among our existing colleagues are the best future leaders, assessing whether everyone has the skills they need to take a step forward in a post-AI world, and making sure we are offering the support that is necessary, to those who need it, to succeed.
In the interest of transparency, the full email that was sent to some of our staff can be found below:
Dear,
AI is fundamentally changing how we build products and how we work. The capabilities Proton needs are evolving, and we must accelerate our transformation to remain competitive and deliver on our mission.
Getting this right is critical to Proton’s future. We need people who can translate AI’s capabilities into better products, stronger execution, and new ways of working—and who approach this change with curiosity, judgment, and urgency.
Last week, Andy interviewed more than 40 senior leaders across Engineering and Product to begin this process. We are now extending re-interviews more broadly to assess how people are adapting to AI and whether they have the capabilities and approach needed for Proton’s next phase.
This is also an opportunity to identify people who can lead the transformation. Those who demonstrate the ability to rethink their work, put AI into practice, and help others adapt may have opportunities to take on greater responsibility, accelerate their development as leaders, and shape Proton’s future.
What does this mean for you?
• Not everyone may be invited to a re-interview.
Given the scale and timeframe, interviews will be prioritized based on the organization’s assessment needs. Whether you receive an invitation should not, on its own, be interpreted as an individual outcome. Any decisions affecting your employment will be communicated separately.
• For those that get invited, re-interviews will take place November 4–11.
Further details about scheduling, format, and preparation will be shared centrally.
• Your interviewer will be outside your team and reporting line.
Interviewers will be selected from a pool of leaders who demonstrate strong AI capability and have aligned on the assessment criteria.
• Expect a discussion about how you think and work.
We want to understand how you apply AI to real problems, how it has changed your approach, where you see opportunities to improve, and how you expect your role to evolve.
• Come prepared with concrete examples.
Be ready to discuss what you have changed in your work, the results, what you have learned, what has not worked, and what you would do differently. A list of tools alone will not demonstrate this.
• Your ability to adapt matters alongside your current capabilities.
We will explore how you learn, challenge established ways of working, exercise judgment, and act on the opportunities AI creates.What are the consequences?
These re-interviews are consequential. Interviewers will document their assessments, which will inform the broader review of our organization and talent. That review may lead to changes in roles, responsibilities, and continued employment. Individual outcomes will be communicated directly once decisions are finalized.
The process will also help us identify people ready to take on broader scope and leadership responsibilities as Proton evolves.We recognize that this process creates uncertainty. We will be clear about what has been decided and what remains open, and communicate individual outcomes as soon as we can.
Please take the re-interview seriously and come prepared to discuss your actual work, your experience with AI, and how you can contribute to Proton’s next phase.Today at 4pm CET, there will be a call for recipients of this email to answer a few more logistical questions.
The meeting will be taking place on this Proton Meet Link
Best,
Did they even read what they wrote? They say they’re not doing layoffs, but the internal email states that interview performance could impact “continued employment”. Anyone getting that absolutely should be worried about their job.
This definitely sounds better than the headline indicated:
Just to clarify, Proton is not doing layoffs and using AI as an excuse. We actually have a big shortage of talent and are actively hiring across the org: https://proton.me/careers#jobslist […] we’re in the process of figuring out who among our existing colleagues are the best future leaders, assessing whether everyone has the skills they need to take a step forward in a post-AI world, and making sure we are offering the support that is necessary, to those who need it, to succeed.
However the actual letter to employees seems to undermine it (emphasis added):
That review may lead to changes in roles, responsibilities, and continued employment. Individual outcomes will be communicated directly once decisions are finalized.
Hey managers, don’t do this shit. If they had just stopped at “may lead to changes in roles and responsibilities” this would probably be fine, people understand that team structures sometimes need to change or modernize. But don’t lie to your employees and tell them it’s not about layoffs when that is in fact a possible outcome. If you need to do some layoffs, it should be entirely separate and part of the normal performance eval process, not done via some BS re-interview under a team who probably doesn’t even understand the work.
We actually have a big shortage of talent
That review may lead to changes in roles, responsibilities, and continued employment. Individual outcomes will be communicated directly once decisions are finalized.
Knowing how the hiring/onboarding process works in IT — i.e. how fucking hard it is to find, hire, onboard, train and build up a working relationship with an adequate employee — I strongly doubt they have a “shortage of talent” if they’re willing to fire (or even just threaten to fire) people over what amounts to tooling use.
Oh, also, if I got an email threatening my “continued employment” over shit like this I’d be looking for a new job ASAP. And I have been using LLMs for my work for a couple of years now.
This is a performance review tied to AI.
The primary use of performance reviews is to manufacture a reason to fire someone.
LOL.
This is sleazy AI drafted corporate speak confirming everyone’s supposition: we’re pivoting to AI and if you’re not on board you’re fired.
I guaran-fucking-tee the interview will be fed to a model for analysis and scoring.
Thanks for this.
I can’t help but presume you’re a high ranking member of proton, perhaps a director level staff member; why else should you have this information readily available? Interesting that you’d be so revealing on a thread where you’re likely to be scrutinized by the audience.
Anyhow, when I read the email I get the impression that you’re sugar coating the process of shoving AI down the throat of your engineers.
Did anyone consider having a normal performance review, where you don’t interrogate engineers on the tools they choose to utilize?
People will be loosing their jobs based on their answers, or won’t even be given the chance to answer based on pre-existing knowledge of their AI usage. Answers that don’t involve AI how you’d like are not good answers. That’s clear. There’s no way to be intellectually honest while pretending otherwise.
You are missing the part of the statement where they stated that they copied Protons official response from reddit to save people from the reddit swamp
Can’t read, it’s paywalled.
“We need people who can translate AI’s capabilities into better products, stronger execution, and new ways of working — and who approach this change with curiosity, judgment, and urgency,” the email reads.
What a flaming pile of shit.
- How to effectively use AI is still being figured out. This is akin to “We only hire lucky people”.
- Management clearly is fucking stupid.
- Isn’t the CEO fascist?
Yeah exactly. What I read here is ‘if you’re vibe coding all your shit and can spout off a bunch of AI workflow buzzwords you can keep your job or get promoted if not you’re probably getting canned’
This is a great time for Tuta take a hard no AI stance
That blows. I was genuinely looking into proton after the news that Google will use their shitty AI to scan Gmail. Fuck that.
Like is nothing private anymore? Soon in Europe all your chats will be monitored, email monitored, ID verification, age verification.
Fuck this new internet.
deleted by creator
Heads up! Use a custom domain, don’t full for the gmail trap again (it took me 3 years to get all my emails sorted out and I sacrificed some services where it was hard to change the email)
Get you own custom domain, and when Google, Porton, Tuta, … inevitably goes evil, export and import your emails while keeping your sumu415@myawesomedomain.xyz email address.
In this “personal data economy” hellscape we’ve created, harvesting people’s private data is the default. Unless a product is advertising protecting your privacy like their marketing job depends on it, rest assured, they’re doing the opposite. Any company that does not have an explicit policy against data profiling is actively doing it or is gearing up to.
Check out Tuta or Mailbox.org
Gmail has never been private. I remember them scanning my emails for auto correct like twenty years ago.
Like is nothing private anymore?
Proton has their own AI that they’re developing, which yes, is private. Presumably this is a big part of what they’re doing with their staff, and it makes sense, as they’re going to need people who know what they’re doing and not vibe coders if they don’t want people to hate what they’re making.
Their model has to be private thanks to the laws of the country where they’re incorporated, but think of it like an AI version of Signal, where logs of your prompts and your data aren’t retained. The Swiss don’t fuck around with privacy, and I personally like that Proton doesn’t get to decide this. Every single AI model you’ve probably heard of doesn’t do this, either harvesting any data you put into it or destroying rare books and scraping the web illegally to train its models.
The downer here is that Proton’s AI can’t do some of the things frontier AI can do, but for most users that’s not going to matter.
None of that info makes for fun Reddit rage-baiting, so I’m guessing no one mentioned it. Also, it should be noted that you should never, ever load a file or a prompt into an AI that you wouldn’t want to become public, as servers can get compromised and data leaked.
For me personally, I have not used any AI product or service and trying my utmost to avoid any product or service where ‘AI’ scans my data. I use donotspy on my windows to stop all the shit that now comes with Microsoft as unfortunately my work requires a windows platform, Firefox because I can disable all that AI shit and have my extensions up and running.
It is nothing more than an advanced version of ‘if… then… else’ except it gets it wrong 48% of the time.
Today I had to find a new email client because EMclient also decided to add slop to their app.
As much as I appreciate the warning about uploading any file to any AI client, never in my fucking life.
Smart. Good on you for being mindful and taking appropriate precautions.
I have a Windows/Linux dual-boot and keep anything requiring privacy on the Linux side. For Windows, I use O&O ShutUp, which is an application that allows a user to easily shut off all of Windows’ intrusive settings and delete Copilot.
As for LLM’s, they’re my last resort for anything, and I only really use them if I can’t find the information I need on Mojeek or Marginalia-Search, not just for privacy’s sake but because I have an ideological problem with their vast energy use and the economic and environmental impact those applications have.
But none of it’s foolproof, so I always just keep in the back of my mind before doing or saying anything online: Would I want this to go public?
Maybe take a look at fastmail.com
Fastmail is very good, and now offers the option of storing your data in the EU instead of the USA, but it doesn’t offer end-to-end encryption like Tuta or Proton.
Oh c’mon. Enshittification this fast.
I don’t wanna move all that shit.
That’s not enshittification; enshittification is (to simplify) making a product worse to increase profitability.
In this case the CEO is conducting loyalty tests. It’s more of an HR issue. Groupthink.
Cramping AI into everything, including your “privacy” product, is enshittification.
It’s just not really in the same form as capturing market share and then paywalling your captive market to achieve rent seeking.
In this case you aren’t capturing rent you are capturing profiles, which in turn you will rent out to marketers.
Proton will betray everyone. I’m glad I stayed away.
Cramping AI into everything, including your “privacy” product, is enshittification.
That isn’t necessarily true. AI in and of itself isn’t shit. It’s the training data and the ethics of how that data was acquired that determines whether or not it is shit, and there are a ton of creators who’ve made local models trained only on their own data in order to make their work more efficient.
Most AI users aren’t ethical in that way, but I’d trust Proton before I’d trust a frontier AI developer, if for no other reason than the laws they’re forced to operate under favor privacy. The Swiss are great like that.
I guess I don’t see a good reason to trust either, and setting up a scenario where those are being compared like I must is a false dichotomy.
That’s okay.
You’re welcome to your opinion. Have a great day. :)
I’m really pleased with proton’s service. This is, however, very troubling.
If you think this is troubling, look up the CEOs take/comments on Trump.
Edit: Wow, instantly downvoted by a bot inside of 10 seconds after posting. Someone’s downvoting anything negative about trump it seems.
No need to go search - Here is the CEO’s take on Trump, he tweeted support for Gail Slater for as Donald Trump’s Department of Justice Assistant Attorney General for Antitrust. In Dec 2024 He says
Andy Yen on X (formerly Twitter): “Great pick by @realDonaldTrump. 10 years ago, Republicans were the party of big business and Dems stood for the little guys, but today the tables have completely turned. People forget that the current antitrust actions against Big Tech were started under the first Trump admin. pic.twitter.com/0XVVO2ffcH / X”
Terrible take but also honestly not a super surprising one from a non-citizen foreign CEO who main competition is US companies that should be hit with antitrust suits and are supposed to be regulated by the US.
As of this comment you’re sitting on 14 downvotes.
13 of them are visible on Lemvotes and they look naturally occurring to me. Granted I didn’t bother opening profiles to check their likelihood of being human though.
I don’t think it’s a bot.
Interesting thing I noticed in looking this up though, Andy Yen doesn’t have a Wikipedia page.
Interesting. Maybe I just got “lucky” then hah. I posted, the page refreshed, it said 8 seconds since I posted, and I had 1 downvote already. Figured it had to be a bot or something responding to an API request at that speed, or maybe someone just loaded the page up, scrolled down, read my comment, and downvoted inside of 8 seconds of my perfectly timed post.
The world may never know 🙂
Testing.
Trump is an idiot pants shitter criminal and should have been put in prison long ago.
I downvoted you and I’m not a bot. (And also a Trump hater.)
The fact is every fucking CEO sucks, no matter the product, so that isn’t going to be something I consider when choosing one. The pertinent questions regarding any product are price, quality, and the impact of consuming it.
Proton’s a better choice for most because the Swiss regulate privacy heavily, unlike the US.
The fact is every fucking CEO sucks, no matter the product, so that isn’t going to be something I consider when choosing one.
“I don’t vote cus both sides are the same” energy
I too read nuanced statements and dismiss them with thought-terminating cliches.
Ironically, that’s what I’m condemning your comment for
Well, maybe read it a second time, and the entire thing this go-around, and see if it jars anything loose. Have a great day.
This guy was quite heavily anti Harris last election cycle, so there is some inherent hypocrisy about them
My profile literally says I hate both Democrats and Republicans. If you had an 80 year-old parent forced to drive for DoorDash to avoid homelessness, I imagine you’d be less than impressed with our ruling parties too.
So yep. Anti-Harris.
Famously trying to hide it, obviously. :D
Im not saying that you try to hide it, I was just pointing the other person on that particular stance of yours.
For most people ‘hating Trump’ would imply that you try to support an alternative, but that doesn’t hold in your case. I was just making your interlocutor aware of that as he was assuming you would be a supporting an alernative, which you don’t.
Fair enough. 🤟😎
