@poVoq@slrpnk.net how many more Ukrainians are going to have to be murdered by the regime for you to be happy?
You’re finally admitting that the Russian invasion is murder?
I’m talking about the murder of people who are being gang pressed into fighting by the fascist regime the west installed and people like you support.
Isn’t umm fighting against invasion is required by law for most countries?
Weird way to justify people being forced to fight into something they clearly don’t believe in or have any interest defending.
Sadly law isn’t arbitrary
law has nothing to do with morality
That’s wildly incorrect lol
Let’s not forget that most countries also have constitutions. The citizens constitutional rights cannot be overshadowed by draft. Therefore forcible totalitarian draft is not legal. Here it’s problematic because sovereign legal institutions are non existent in Ukraine and lets admit that in many states legal institutions would crumble when defending citizens rights against violent governments.
ITT people that claim they hate trump have the same opinion on one of the biggest political issues for the same reason, they love Russian expansion.
Ok, but like realistically what do you think the outcome in this war is? Do you think there is a realistic path forwards in which Ukraine beats Russia?
If your answer to that is yes, then I don’t know what to say to you. Ukraine is getting overrun by material and people from its much larger opponent. The only way to tip that balance is the rest of nato going hot(er) and joining the war and then we have ww3 - which I hardly need to point out the devastating consequences of for the whole world.
If your answer to that is no, then what does conscription of men and the continuation of the war achieve? Other than greater suffering, death and destruction. How can that be good? I don’t want Russia to win per-say, this is a brutal war between two reactionary powers. But I do wish for all the civilians in the affected area that the war stops, so their children will stop being killed in the collateral and they can stop sacrificing their sons and fathers to the meat grinder. It is clear that Ukraine isn’t winning so the path to peace is Russia wins.
Russia winning is the most good realistic outcome.
You say, every small country should all just let their bigger neighbours get control over them without a fight, because “tHiS wAr Is aLrEAdy LoST”?
Russia makes military fail after military fail and achieve no land except some useless corn fields. But “tHeY aRe the 2nd stRoNgEst mIliTary”. While they take tanks out of museums because all their toys get humiliated by drone swarms.
🤷🏻 but I guess you with your opinion (like me with mine) do not change the sad stuff that is happening
You say, every small country should all just let their bigger neighbours get control over them without a fight, because “tHiS wAr Is aLrEAdy LoST”?
I literally did not say that. In fact nothing of what you’ve put in quotation marks is a quotation of mine. Truly you have a beautiful mind. I very much doubt you really care about other nations territorial integrity, in the way your argument seems to suggest, as I doubt you’re making the same arguments when America or other nato aligned nations invade other countries.
Regarding Russian military successes and failures, I think there have been heavy losses on both sides, and major humiliations on both sides. However given that Russia controls nearly a fifth of Ukraines territory and that number is going up not down, I’d suggest that they’re doing ok in terms of land gains. Which isn’t even the main objective of Russia in this moment who have pivoted to a war of attrition, which they will certainly win.
So back to my previous point, what do you think is going to happen? And given the inevitable conclusion, why do you want to promote the war in which you will be sending thousands of Ukrainians (and indeed Russians) to a futile death?
No invasion is never good, not from IS not from russia not from china not from Israel not from germany and not from korea (both sides) as examples
I don’t really pick general sides, but with an invasion, for me, it is clear that the invading party is generally the bad guy
There was nearly no loss nor gains of Landmasses within Ukrine for over a year now, but since Ukrine got their fighter jets, they took some Russia land, apparently.
To try predict the future, I think Ukraine’s Plan to get more and more of Russia land in order to trade all lands back as they were before war, may work, given the NATO (especially US) keeps on giving the weapons and ammunition to Ukraine.
Ahh yes, history always begins on the day of the invasion. The western allies were wrong to invade France on D-Day as being the invader is always bad. There is never any preceding events that may give light to the motives of the attacker. For good or for bad. Libs ‘consider world events not just on in-the-moment vibes’ challenge: impossible.
There being no losses or gains in Ukraine is because Russia has changed its tactics, they’re now grinding it out until Ukraine collapses totally due to lack of material and manpower, not going for territorial gains. Despite this they’re still making strategically important gains in Ukraine. You know Russia has reclaimed a quarter of that land in Kursk back already don’t you? Also that it is a tiny region of land they claimed in the first place, 300 down from 400 square miles. Your vision of the future where Ukraine takes huge swaths of Russia and trades for occupied Ukrainian lands is never going to happen.
A invasion in answer of a recent invasion to reclaim the land back is nit making you the bad guy.
Ukraine did not invade Russia.
And to the second part, so to your logic, every country that is weaker than a neighbour should just let them in taking all the land?!
Ok so you do accept that history can provide legitimate motives for an event?
Ukraine did not invade Russia
Cmon you’re almost there, one nations invasion isn’t the only thing that could justify another nations invasion. Other acts of violence across the border of another nation could be legitimate grounds for an invasion too.
And to the second part, so to your logic, every country that is weaker than a neighbour should just let them in taking all the land?!
Again, I literally did not say that, that’s your logic not mine. I don’t believe in nations full stop. It’s a very dumb concept that seeks to divide and control. I believe all nations should be dissolved and we should all live in stateless queer communist paradise.
But…
How I think the world should be is irrelevant. What I believe other countries should and shouldn’t do is irrelevant. This is idealism. Idealism is nonsense.
The only thing that matters is the material reality of a situation. The material reality is nations exist. Nations use violence to further their interests. Some nations are stronger than others. Some nations band together in defensive pacts to prevent aggression from larger neighbours. Some strong nations band together in pacts to assert their will and control over weaker nations and dole out violence with impunity. Whether anyone should or shouldn’t do these things is neither here nor there, the simple fact of the matter is that they do engage in these action, therefore what matters is how you react to the current situation. And the material reality of the Ukraine war, as it is right now, is that Ukraine will lose and Russia will win. So what is your desired course of action given the existing material reality?
Y’all are fucking clowns for defending the Russian invasion of Ukraine and saying that Ukrainians should just give up.
How about all the Russians getting forced in to a war just to die? Where is the criticism of Putin and his regime and the atrocities that he commits? Oh, that’s right, it doesn’t fit the narrative that mother Russia is superior to everyone else and deserve to take Ukrainian land.
It’s pretty obvious that you’re just fascist. It’s going full circle in here.
Fucking clowns 🤣 Clowns living in a clown world is what you are 🤡🤡🤡
and saying that Ukrainians should just give up.
I’ll try to argue in good faith and ask you - what evidence (other than this post, apparently it doesn’t convince you) would be needed for you to admit that we don’t want to fight, and it’s Zelensky’s regime (with West’s support) that forces us to (and effectively genocides us)?
How about all the Russians getting forced in to a war just to die?
It’s also bad. Russia is not turned into a mass prison which people can’t leave and where they are kidnapped on the streets though, Ukraine is.
A man in Russia can leave at any moment.
A man in Ukraine is automatically a prisoner, he can only escape.Where is the criticism of Putin and his regime and the atrocities that he commits?
Here it is: I condemn Putin for the atrocities he commits. I regularly hear from my friends and family, who are still in Ukraine, about Russian rockets/drones flying over them.
You see, I’ve tried to argue in good faith with you, despite you supporting Zelensky’s fascist regime that tries to kill me and people I know. Now, can you do the same? :)
It’s horrible that Ukrainians and Russians are getting forced in to a war that neither wanted to participate in. I hate wars and I would have preferred to see everyone live in peace. But reality is not like that.
Putin is trying to take your homeland and you’re doing nothing to prevent it. You’re not even in your own country… I find it pretty rich that condemn Putin and his actions while also being okey with it happening as long as no one has to fight for Ukraine.
Who should fight for their freedom if not the people that live there? I would defend my homeland til I die if it meant my country would remain a democracy and be free dictators and fascists.
You didn’t answer my question “what evidence (…) would be needed for you to admit that we don’t want to fight, and it’s Zelensky’s regime (…) that forces us to (…)” :(
Putin is trying to take your homeland and you’re doing nothing to prevent it.
What do you mean “take”?
What prevents me from living on the land Putin has taken?
Or let’s be more exact - what prevents people in Crimea, Melitopol and other cities/regions taken by Putin to continue living there?
Or maybe you want to say that the life there is worse? Then please define in what way. Is it being able to freely move? Is it not being a subject to mass kidnappings? Is it being able to speak your mother tongue without being discriminated for it (or worse…)? Is it being able to form political parties? Is it being able to vote for your president (even if you consider the elections rigged)?You’re not even in your own country…
I cannot return there, until Zelensky’s regime is done. If I go there - I won’t be able to come back. I’ll be imprisoned like the rest of the country. I’ll be sooner or later kidnapped and sent to die.
Who should fight for their freedom if not the people that live there?
Fighting for freedom is fighting against Zelensky’s regime, he is the one taking the freedom away. And it’s extremely hard to fight him, as long as he has western support.
Some people dug too deep into the reality tunnel, any common sense has been left far behind.
Obvious reality check: Ukraine has some nazies. Also
a) they’re not their top problem. That being, you know, invasion and occupation by an authoritarian dictatorship.
b) point me at the country that hasn’t. What, you want China to invade Germany because AfD has 30% in some provinces? Let people sort their shit before you call for a foreign boot ffs.
(Not even touching the fact that the only reason Russia isnt seig heil’ing right this second, is that little Pu is afraid of any popular movements, including fascism. But it’ll get there, give it a couple years and/or heart strokes)
nice hasbara
mother Russia is superior to everyone else and deserve to take Ukrainian land.
Are you seriously getting your viewpoints about what Russia wants…FROM THE CIA? that’s fucking insane. Here’s what you should do. Find any translation of any spokesperson of Russia. Two famous ones are Lavrov and Maria something. Both of them are very intelligent and speak clearly.
edit: Also Russia doesn’t target civilians. There’s a thing that’s commonly used by the US and Israel called atrocity propaganda. Look it up. Russia is taking casualties but it’s not that much. It’s approximately 1 death to 20-30 Ukranian deaths ATM.
Y’all fucking clowns for defending the fascist regime you support dragging people to fight for your entertainment. Go sign up for the foreign legion already instead of trolling here.
Lmao, I am not the one defending a fascist dictator and his regime trying to take over a foreign country, sending their men to a certain death 🤣 get your head out of your ass you clown 🤡🤡🤡
Every man who gets away stays alive to rebuild later. Every man who gets caught extends the war and dies for nothing.
It’s super hard to get away now…
Zelensky’s regime may have troubles with keeping the eastern border safe, but the western one is defended like no other (that is, from people trying to escape of course).
And the bribes to get out legally are more than 10k$… For lots of us (especially for people living in villages) this is an amount of money we’ve never seen in a lifetime.
There’s still a nightlife in Kyiv? The war there is worlds apart from what’s happening in Gaza. Gaza hasn’t had electricity or water for a year now.
That’s not a war though, it’s a genocide
Russia isn’t targeting civilians. Also in Ukraine they draft poor people to die
That’s one take. Recently a bigger focus has been on how these men are avoiding their duties as citizens to protect their country, way of living and freedom. But draft dodging is fine from a pacifist point of view.
Better that than being lured into a war as the Russians do.
Edited to way of living to help the literally ones
If you’re not ready to protect life and freedom by getting blown up within a week of arriving at the front in an unwinnable war you’re a bad person.
bigger focus has been on how these men are avoiding their duties as citizens to protect their country, lives and freedom
How would they be protecting their lives by going into a war zone? And if their freedom was important they wouldn’t be getting pressed into service; as for protecting their country, no one cared that they were shirking that responsibility when they allowed Azov militia members to kill ethnic Russians (who identified as Ukrainian until they were being ethnically cleansed) without defending that part of their country. Why weren’t Ukrainians defending that part of the country?
Huh that’s gotta be the highest upvoted article critical of Ukraine regime i seen here.
Either libs are already in the inevitable process of transforming from “kill ruZZian orcs” to “we never supported that war” or we are just out of peak hours for lib brigades.
It really isn’t that far of a reach to support ukraines fight for sovereignty but also detest forced conscription.
It’s not one or the other.
@yogthos For any western liberal that is cheering on this bloodshed on behalf of Western capitalist powers, I invite you to jump on a plane and pick up a rifle.
This conflict has only two outcomes. A peace deal through negotiations as with any war in history, or WWIII.
Sadly, the American stance “we will fight Russia down to the last Ukrainian” is the reality. Once the smoke clears, if there was a victory, it will be the property of Western interests like Black Rock.
Seriously, wish all these people would just sign up for the foreign legion and put their money where their mouth is.
Itt liberals reveal that their is no depth of casual fascist bloodthirst they won’t plumb. Pretending to care about Ukranians while they cheer for them getting rounded up and used as meatshields in a lost war.
I think that most is against poor Russians dying in the same way, in the same lost war
Exactly, the only reasonable and humane position is to end the bloodshed with diplomacy immediately
Have you seen Raytheon stock price ? Not a chance ! With Russian blood this cheap.
The western supremacists are willing to sacrifice every Ukranian civilian, to push NATO east.
Just today Zaluzhnyi (ex AFU Commander-in-Chief) said that if needed, they will start mobilizing (so kidnapping from the streets, etc.) women too.
And then it finally going to be a proper, total genocide of Ukrainians…
I am sure there are no red lines for Zelensky’s regime now… He can start murdering kids, and it will be met with western applause…
