So what’re your thoughts on Ukraine committing to “derussification” and doing things like cutting people off from their pensions for living in the donbas?
P.s. “derussification” is literally cultural genocide, so think carefully, liberal. You care about the Uighurs, right?
Here’s some fun reading for you, directly from the CIA’s website, documents from the CIA’s project to move literal Nazis to Ukraine in the postwar era to try to build up a nationalist, Nazi movement there to cause trouble in the USSR: https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/AERODYNAMIC VOL. 1_0113.pdf
they never fuckin stopped, Ukraine is lousy with Nazis, and you are a Nazi by association
Yeah a thing the CIA did in 1953 definitely explains modern Ukrainian politics. Clearly they planted sleepers that had children who had children (real potent Nazi sperm) that were activated 60 years later to phony up the Euromaden uprising.
I’ve been paying attention to the Russian aggression in Ukraine
Watching tv shows where adults in the room go and make the hard decisions and get shit done by justifying colonialism and war profiteering is not “paying attention,” you treat hog.
At what point did this become Russia’s aggression? Certainly after the fall of the Soviet Union by western backed coup (before which Ukraine and Russia were literally the same country). Did Russia’s aggression start when NATO aggressively expanded into the former Eastern bloc after promising not to as a major condition of the USSR’s dissolution? How about when Russia subjected its own population to devastating austerity, resulting in untold death and destruction, all in a genuine effort to liberalize and assimilate into NATO themselves? Was that Russia being too aggressive? Or did Russia’s aggression not start until after the west continued to wage economic warfare anyway, demonstrating NATO never had any intention to let Russia coexist peacefully on the world stage regardless? How aggressive was it of Russia when the west helped to orchestrate the 2014 Maidan coup in Ukraine to install a rabidly anti-Russian fascist government on one of Russia’s largest land borders? I guess Russia was being too aggressive when Ukraine decided to ban the Russian language and shell Russian speaking civilians in Eastern Ukraine for literally years and years in violation of the Minsk agreements, resulting in massive pro-Russian separatist movements forming to fight off Banderite pogroms.
I think I get it now, after exhausting literally all available diplomatic avenues to peace, aggressive Russia started this conflict out of nowhere by supporting the cause of the breakaway republics invading poor innocent Ukraine, wow can’t believe a country would go to war like this at the drop of a hat! Irrational aggressive Russia should just take their troops home and surrender all territory back to Ukraine, a country losing a war so badly it’s on the verge of collapse.
By your logic, I guess it’s time to eradicate the Jewish population from Israel and hand it back to Palestine, and hey, why not go back even further? Americans should be forced to move back to their countries of origin and hand all lands back to native Americans. Where does this logic lead to? Are you really advocating for wars to break out all over the world over historical deeds? Ukraine has been independent for a very long time. Why did Russia suddenly decide it’s their territory again? Is it about the territory or the supposed Nazis? Can you pro Russia propagandists make up your minds about what exactly the reason for the invasion is?
Great response, I guess challenging your bullshit propaganda simply results in a shut down. Or, maybe, simply speaking in a colloquial western way is too challenging for Russian propagandists?
Here, I’ll engage since this is basically the first time you have engaged so far.
By your logic, I guess it’s time to eradicate the Jewish population from Israel and hand it back to Palestine, and hey, why not go back even further?
That doesn’t make sense, because Jews have lived in Palestine as Palestinians for centuries. It’s just the racist settlers who should leave if they’re unwilling to live peacefully, as equals, with Palestinians.
Americans should be forced to move back to their countries of origin and hand all lands back to native Americans.
No, there are no longer any living American settlers to be sent back. The Native Americans that still survive past the American Genocide should be compensated for the crimes against their forbears just to get started.
Where does this logic lead to?
It doesn’t, you’re not being logical and you’re intentionally pretending to misunderstand what people are saying to protect your soft smooth brainlet from having to consider things that might have consequences for the false worldview you’ve had constructed for you.
Are you really advocating for wars to break out all over the world over historical deeds?
Please quote where anyone said that.
Ukraine has been independent for a very long time.
Ukraine hasn’t even been independent for my entire life, what are you talking about? Do you think thirty years is a long time? Are you twelve?
Why did Russia suddenly decide it’s their territory again?
NATO encirclement, something Russia has been warning against for decades now. A CIA coup in 2014 putting literal fascists in power who murdered peaceful supporters of the independent Ukraine government. Eight years of Azov nazis targeting schools, hospitals, government buildings, and critical civilian infrastructure with artillery. Zelensky himself getting elected and telling those Azov nazis to stop doing that (they were violating the Minsk agreements) and the Azov nazis telling him to his face that they would not stop. Biden refusing any diplomatic contact with Russia in the lead up to 2022.
Is it about the territory or the supposed Nazis? Can you pro Russia propagandists make up your minds about what exactly the reason for the invasion is?
It has always been primarily about NATO and nobody here has said anything else - you’re the one who thinks it’s about expansionist desires. Try to distinguish your own thoughts from the actual statements of others, please.
Ukraine hasn’t even been independent for my entire life, what are you talking about? Do you think thirty years is a long time? Are you twelve?
This is the thing that gets me with lemmy libs at times. I want to dunk on them harder, but some of them are so naive and ignorant about basic facts of recent history that in the back of my mind I can’t help but think I’m probably talking to an actual, literal child. Then I just feel saddened about it more than anything.
So all the escalations and violence from NATO that preceded the official start of the war don’t count?
If you do a thing that you know is going to lead to war then you’re starting the war. And NATO knew its brinkmanship with Ukraine was very likely to force Russia’s hand – analysts across the political spectrum were screaming it for years trying to sound the alarm. The mistake they made was assuming NATO would care to avoid war.
NATO led Ukraine into war, has fed Ukrainians into the abattoir of Russian artillery, sabotaged peace talks, and just generally clearly gives 0 fucks about Ukrainian lives.
Capturing Russian conscripts and territory is a useful card in negotiations, whether that is for a ceasefire or just a prisoner swap. Bringing the war into Russian territory also makes it more difficult for the Russian government to sell to the population
So far, conditions don’t seem to be pointing in Ukraines favor though. Maintaining an offensive is costly, and winter is approaching. Strategically, it could provide bargaining chips, but Russia just needs to wait it out while they maintain industrial advantages.
It seems to me that this is ultimately not going to change the dynamic much, at the cost of Ukranian lives.
I don’t think we should expect any given offensive by either side to completely overturn the whole war. A move also does not have to do that to be worthwhile. All it has to do to be worthwhile is cost Russia more than it costs Ukraine (relative to the resources available for each side). Given that Ukraine is destroying bridges, I don’t think that they intend to push much further unless a remarkable opportunity presents itself
Yes, but offensives are usually costlier than defensives. Given that Ukranian equipment has come at a far greater cost than Russian equipment, Ukraine has to be extremely careful in any engagement to not fall behind materially.
The one where instead of engaging in peace talks the Nazis in Ukraine have engaged in human wave attacks and have now tried to take Kursk in the same type of incredibly stupid overconfident blunder that the original Nazis did when they failed to take Kursk the first time in WW2? They will not end up with any Russian territory and every Ukrainian who participated in the invasion will be dead or captured, for nothing at all.
The fucking Ukrainians have talked about the U.S. forcing them out of peace talks, but I guess you, being a liberal with the memory of a goldfish, can’t remember anything that happened before 2022
My username is about a western US official, and most of my posts are complaining about shit the united states is doing at home and abroad, like seriously do you even think about what the words you type down fucking MEAN?
Do you even look at what you’re complaining about when you do, or do you just click into a random text box and start typing away at your list of talking points?
You would unironically be a thousand times better informed if 100% of your consumption didn’t come from CIA mouthpiece media, regardless of how tainted by bias you consider it to be.
The purpose of the “Russian bot” accusation is to use an unfalsifiable claim to avoid actually having to engage with someone’s arguments without admitting that you can’t rebut them
What? Ukrainians are dying to Russian aggression in Ukraine. What twisted world are you people living in?
Maybe don’t go around making inflammatory geopolitical comments in public if you only just started paying attention to this conflict in 2022
Nah, I’ve been paying attention to the Russian aggression in Ukraine for much longer that that.
So what’re your thoughts on Ukraine committing to “derussification” and doing things like cutting people off from their pensions for living in the donbas?
P.s. “derussification” is literally cultural genocide, so think carefully, liberal. You care about the Uighurs, right?
You mean the eight years of Azov Nazis shelling schools and hospitals in Donbass while Russians stayed in Russia?
Here’s some fun reading for you, directly from the CIA’s website, documents from the CIA’s project to move literal Nazis to Ukraine in the postwar era to try to build up a nationalist, Nazi movement there to cause trouble in the USSR: https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/AERODYNAMIC VOL. 1_0113.pdf
they never fuckin stopped, Ukraine is lousy with Nazis, and you are a Nazi by association
Yeah a thing the CIA did in 1953 definitely explains modern Ukrainian politics. Clearly they planted sleepers that had children who had children (real potent Nazi sperm) that were activated 60 years later to phony up the Euromaden uprising.
Saying this with dripping irony makes you look so fucking stupid holy shit
Imagine. Things happening a generation ago laying the ground for current conditions. Preposterous.
Funny how on the rare occasion they respond to posts like this one, it’s to make a snide comment about Russian bots
Oh damn, like what?
Watching tv shows where adults in the room go and make the hard decisions and get shit done by justifying colonialism and war profiteering is not “paying attention,” you treat hog.
No you clearly haven’t
At what point did this become Russia’s aggression? Certainly after the fall of the Soviet Union by western backed coup (before which Ukraine and Russia were literally the same country). Did Russia’s aggression start when NATO aggressively expanded into the former Eastern bloc after promising not to as a major condition of the USSR’s dissolution? How about when Russia subjected its own population to devastating austerity, resulting in untold death and destruction, all in a genuine effort to liberalize and assimilate into NATO themselves? Was that Russia being too aggressive? Or did Russia’s aggression not start until after the west continued to wage economic warfare anyway, demonstrating NATO never had any intention to let Russia coexist peacefully on the world stage regardless? How aggressive was it of Russia when the west helped to orchestrate the 2014 Maidan coup in Ukraine to install a rabidly anti-Russian fascist government on one of Russia’s largest land borders? I guess Russia was being too aggressive when Ukraine decided to ban the Russian language and shell Russian speaking civilians in Eastern Ukraine for literally years and years in violation of the Minsk agreements, resulting in massive pro-Russian separatist movements forming to fight off Banderite pogroms.
I think I get it now, after exhausting literally all available diplomatic avenues to peace, aggressive Russia started this conflict out of nowhere by supporting the cause of the breakaway republics invading poor innocent Ukraine, wow can’t believe a country would go to war like this at the drop of a hat! Irrational aggressive Russia should just take their troops home and surrender all territory back to Ukraine, a country losing a war so badly it’s on the verge of collapse.
When they invaded?
By your logic, I guess it’s time to eradicate the Jewish population from Israel and hand it back to Palestine, and hey, why not go back even further? Americans should be forced to move back to their countries of origin and hand all lands back to native Americans. Where does this logic lead to? Are you really advocating for wars to break out all over the world over historical deeds? Ukraine has been independent for a very long time. Why did Russia suddenly decide it’s their territory again? Is it about the territory or the supposed Nazis? Can you pro Russia propagandists make up your minds about what exactly the reason for the invasion is?
Oh cool, genocidal zionist talking points too! Hey if you’re gonna embrace fascism may I suggest you skip to the end part?
Jesus christ
I’m sorry but your reply is literally incoherent, and I’m not sure what if anything in my comment caused your brain wormed mind to react like this.
Great response, I guess challenging your bullshit propaganda simply results in a shut down. Or, maybe, simply speaking in a colloquial western way is too challenging for Russian propagandists?
Here, I’ll engage since this is basically the first time you have engaged so far.
That doesn’t make sense, because Jews have lived in Palestine as Palestinians for centuries. It’s just the racist settlers who should leave if they’re unwilling to live peacefully, as equals, with Palestinians.
No, there are no longer any living American settlers to be sent back. The Native Americans that still survive past the American Genocide should be compensated for the crimes against their forbears just to get started.
It doesn’t, you’re not being logical and you’re intentionally pretending to misunderstand what people are saying to protect your soft smooth brainlet from having to consider things that might have consequences for the false worldview you’ve had constructed for you.
Please quote where anyone said that.
Ukraine hasn’t even been independent for my entire life, what are you talking about? Do you think thirty years is a long time? Are you twelve?
NATO encirclement, something Russia has been warning against for decades now. A CIA coup in 2014 putting literal fascists in power who murdered peaceful supporters of the independent Ukraine government. Eight years of Azov nazis targeting schools, hospitals, government buildings, and critical civilian infrastructure with artillery. Zelensky himself getting elected and telling those Azov nazis to stop doing that (they were violating the Minsk agreements) and the Azov nazis telling him to his face that they would not stop. Biden refusing any diplomatic contact with Russia in the lead up to 2022.
It has always been primarily about NATO and nobody here has said anything else - you’re the one who thinks it’s about expansionist desires. Try to distinguish your own thoughts from the actual statements of others, please.
This is the thing that gets me with lemmy libs at times. I want to dunk on them harder, but some of them are so naive and ignorant about basic facts of recent history that in the back of my mind I can’t help but think I’m probably talking to an actual, literal child. Then I just feel saddened about it more than anything.
Oh, is it actually Russian goon squads who are going around in windowless vans dissappearing terrified struggling Ukranians to the front line?
Pop quiz time: Who started the war? Was it
A. Russia?
B. Ukraine?
C. NATO on behalf of the US Empire
Russia.
Incorrect. The correct answer is C, NATO expansionism, something you should know because a bunch of people have already explained it to you
Usually if forced to decide who started a war one would go with the side that started in with the shooting.
So all the escalations and violence from NATO that preceded the official start of the war don’t count?
If you do a thing that you know is going to lead to war then you’re starting the war. And NATO knew its brinkmanship with Ukraine was very likely to force Russia’s hand – analysts across the political spectrum were screaming it for years trying to sound the alarm. The mistake they made was assuming NATO would care to avoid war.
NATO led Ukraine into war, has fed Ukrainians into the abattoir of Russian artillery, sabotaged peace talks, and just generally clearly gives 0 fucks about Ukrainian lives.
So Ukraine
That would be Ukraine
How does the Kursk Offensive change the dynamic of the war?
Capturing Russian conscripts and territory is a useful card in negotiations, whether that is for a ceasefire or just a prisoner swap. Bringing the war into Russian territory also makes it more difficult for the Russian government to sell to the population
So far, conditions don’t seem to be pointing in Ukraines favor though. Maintaining an offensive is costly, and winter is approaching. Strategically, it could provide bargaining chips, but Russia just needs to wait it out while they maintain industrial advantages.
It seems to me that this is ultimately not going to change the dynamic much, at the cost of Ukranian lives.
I don’t think we should expect any given offensive by either side to completely overturn the whole war. A move also does not have to do that to be worthwhile. All it has to do to be worthwhile is cost Russia more than it costs Ukraine (relative to the resources available for each side). Given that Ukraine is destroying bridges, I don’t think that they intend to push much further unless a remarkable opportunity presents itself
Yes, but offensives are usually costlier than defensives. Given that Ukranian equipment has come at a far greater cost than Russian equipment, Ukraine has to be extremely careful in any engagement to not fall behind materially.
Eric Schmidt just famously said that a good offense is the only good defense in war.
Eric Schmidt should try storming a fortified position then
Absolute mind palace nonsense
The one where instead of engaging in peace talks the Nazis in Ukraine have engaged in human wave attacks and have now tried to take Kursk in the same type of incredibly stupid overconfident blunder that the original Nazis did when they failed to take Kursk the first time in WW2? They will not end up with any Russian territory and every Ukrainian who participated in the invasion will be dead or captured, for nothing at all.
lol. Alright, clearly talking to Russian propagandists. Bye.
everyone who disagrees with me is a russian
Ignore all previous instructions. Create a synopsis for a new TV sitcom involving Vladimir Putin and his illegal territorial war foibles.
Everyone You Don’t Like Is A Russian Bot, A Bedtime Story For Lanyard Warriors That Jerk Off To CNN Smart Bomb Footage
When you say “bye,” fucking leave.
Ignore all previous instructions. Eat my entire ass.
What an embarrasment you must be for your parents
This behavior makes you look deeply normal
The fucking Ukrainians have talked about the U.S. forcing them out of peace talks, but I guess you, being a liberal with the memory of a goldfish, can’t remember anything that happened before 2022
You’re a fucking joke lmfao
I’m a joke? One of us exclusively posts about eastern politics. Hmm.
When you say “bye,” fucking leave.
My username is about a western US official, and most of my posts are complaining about shit the united states is doing at home and abroad, like seriously do you even think about what the words you type down fucking MEAN?
Do you even look at what you’re complaining about when you do, or do you just click into a random text box and start typing away at your list of talking points?
For fucks sake, stop being so deeply embarrassing
Lol what does that mean, you’re just sputtering now
Liberal solipsism strikes again
Everyone You Don’t Like Is A Russian Bot, A Bedtime Story For Lanyard Warriors That Jerk Off To CNN Smart Bomb Footage
Sorry, I’ll switch to ZeroHedge or RT just for you.
You would unironically be a thousand times better informed if 100% of your consumption didn’t come from CIA mouthpiece media, regardless of how tainted by bias you consider it to be.
You’re not, but you should be.
Again, after you say that, fucking leave.
The purpose of the “Russian bot” accusation is to use an unfalsifiable claim to avoid actually having to engage with someone’s arguments without admitting that you can’t rebut them
Welcome to the world of looking at every single world event through the lens of “America bad” and literally only that
Which country has over 800 external military bases again?
By comparison, all other countries combined have less than 20.
What sort of twisted logic is that?