• RBG@discuss.tchncs.de
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    4
    ·
    edit-2
    1 year ago

    A prolonged incursion into Russia could escalate the conflict, drawing in other nations and potentially leading to a catastrophic global confrontation.

    Bit of a joke to write this, isn’t it. The one country that is escalating things is Russia. They could have always moved back and have given up and this would all be over. Maybe Ukraine would leave the Russian territory if Russia leaves Ukrainian territory? Not sure that’s on the table.

    Edit: coming back to all the reactions. Just wow.

  • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmy.mlOP
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    2
    ·
    1 year ago

    looks like western sponsors of the war might have had enough of Zelensky

    It is time for sober reflection. The Ukrainian people deserve leadership focused on practical, achievable objectives, not on grandstanding gestures. While courage and defiance are admirable, they must be tempered with strategic wisdom. The path to victory lies not in symbolic acts of defiance, but in the methodical, relentless pursuit of territorial liberation.

    • Amerikan Pharaoh@lemmygrad.ml
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      2
      ·
      edit-2
      1 year ago

      Ah, so the next phase of Amerikan ‘friendship’ is due to start. (Y’know, the point where the betray they guy they’ve been funding for like a decade and send him scurrying into a mountain range if he lives, right?)

    • the_wise_wolf@feddit.org
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      0
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      1 year ago

      The path to victory lies not in symbolic acts of defiance, but in the methodical, relentless pursuit of territorial liberation.

      That’s just stupid. Are they really suggesting Ukraine should focus solely on grinding through fortified Russian defenses? War is more complicated than “just liberate the occupied territory”. And while it’s true that this counteroffensive has its risks. Everything they do or don’t do has its risks.

      • PolandIsAStateOfMind@lemmy.ml
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        2
        ·
        1 year ago

        I think they are just meant Ukraine should stick to the original strategy of prolonging the war no matter what. It’s lost either way, but costly losses will finish it faster than daily grind as usual.

        • the_wise_wolf@feddit.org
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          0
          arrow-down
          2
          ·
          1 year ago

          I’m not sure how to understand your comment. Currently neither side is winning or loosing. Which is why neither side is willing to give up. The west needs to decide if they want to keep it that way, or give Ukraine enough support so they can finish the job “fast”.

            • the_wise_wolf@feddit.org
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              0
              arrow-down
              2
              ·
              1 year ago

              Ukraine needs a steady supply of modern weapons and the freedom to use them on Russian territory. That way they can continue dismantling the Russian military and minimize casualties. The Russians are pulling a lot of equipment from storage and are refurbishing it. But those storages won’t last forever. Also, Russia may have a large population (so does Ukraine), but pretty much everybody willing to fight is already fighting. Also economic hardships are only going to increase. In other words, political instability in Russia is increasing and with it Putin’s ability to mobilize troops. Don’t forget, Putin can pull out at any time without loosing his power. For Ukraine it’s about survival.

              • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                1
                ·
                1 year ago

                It seems for every issue in Russia you pose, Ukraine is faring worse-off. Ukraine is grabbing people off the streets, the majority of die-hard loyalists signed up when the war started.

                I don’t see how Ukraine wins by “using modern weapons on Russian Territory.”

                • the_wise_wolf@feddit.org
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  2
                  arrow-down
                  1
                  ·
                  1 year ago

                  Yes, Ukraine faces a lot of the same problems. That’s why it needs international help. The difference is that even if Ukranians don’t want to fight. At least they have a good reason to.

                  I’m not saying that victory will be easy. All I’m saying is that it’s very much possible.

      • freagle@lemmygrad.ml
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        1
        ·
        1 year ago

        They’re suggesting that everything is Zelensky’s fault so they can blame him, turn public opinion against him (remember how much everyone thought he was a hero last year), so that when they coup/assassinate him people won’t mind.

    • the_wise_wolf@feddit.org
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      0
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      1 year ago

      Russia’s current position is, that for ceasefire negotiations to start, Ukraine first has to demilitarize. In other words, no. There aren’t any ceasefire negotiations starting any time soon.

      • blarth@thelemmy.club
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        1
        arrow-down
        2
        ·
        1 year ago

        Don’t disrupt the hexbear user propaganda! They’re trying to tell a story here. A fictional one, but still, a story.

      • blarth@thelemmy.club
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        0
        arrow-down
        3
        ·
        1 year ago

        What? Ukrainians are dying to Russian aggression in Ukraine. What twisted world are you people living in?

          • blarth@thelemmy.club
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            2
            arrow-down
            3
            ·
            1 year ago

            Nah, I’ve been paying attention to the Russian aggression in Ukraine for much longer that that.

            • Black_Mald_Futures [any]@hexbear.net
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              6
              arrow-down
              1
              ·
              1 year ago

              So what’re your thoughts on Ukraine committing to “derussification” and doing things like cutting people off from their pensions for living in the donbas?

              P.s. “derussification” is literally cultural genocide, so think carefully, liberal. You care about the Uighurs, right?

              • BeamBrain [he/him]@hexbear.net
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                0
                ·
                1 year ago

                Funny how on the rare occasion they respond to posts like this one, it’s to make a snide comment about Russian bots

                sartre-pipe “If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.”

              • anachronist@midwest.social
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                1
                arrow-down
                1
                ·
                1 year ago

                Yeah a thing the CIA did in 1953 definitely explains modern Ukrainian politics. Clearly they planted sleepers that had children who had children (real potent Nazi sperm) that were activated 60 years later to phony up the Euromaden uprising.

                • AntiOutsideAktion@lemmy.ml
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  1
                  ·
                  1 year ago

                  Yeah a thing the CIA did in 1953 definitely explains modern Ukrainian politics.

                  Saying this with dripping irony makes you look so fucking stupid holy shit

                  Imagine. Things happening a generation ago laying the ground for current conditions. Preposterous.

            • UlyssesT [he/him]@hexbear.net
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              2
              ·
              1 year ago

              I’ve been paying attention to the Russian aggression in Ukraine

              Watching tv shows where adults in the room go and make the hard decisions and get shit done by justifying colonialism and war profiteering is not “paying attention,” you treat hog.

            • cosecantphi [he/him, they/them]@hexbear.net
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              1
              ·
              edit-2
              1 year ago

              At what point did this become Russia’s aggression? Certainly after the fall of the Soviet Union by western backed coup (before which Ukraine and Russia were literally the same country). Did Russia’s aggression start when NATO aggressively expanded into the former Eastern bloc after promising not to as a major condition of the USSR’s dissolution? How about when Russia subjected its own population to devastating austerity, resulting in untold death and destruction, all in a genuine effort to liberalize and assimilate into NATO themselves? Was that Russia being too aggressive? Or did Russia’s aggression not start until after the west continued to wage economic warfare anyway, demonstrating NATO never had any intention to let Russia coexist peacefully on the world stage regardless? How aggressive was it of Russia when the west helped to orchestrate the 2014 Maidan coup in Ukraine to install a rabidly anti-Russian fascist government on one of Russia’s largest land borders? I guess Russia was being too aggressive when Ukraine decided to ban the Russian language and shell Russian speaking civilians in Eastern Ukraine for literally years and years in violation of the Minsk agreements, resulting in massive pro-Russian separatist movements forming to fight off Banderite pogroms.

              I think I get it now, after exhausting literally all available diplomatic avenues to peace, aggressive Russia started this conflict out of nowhere by supporting the cause of the breakaway republics invading poor innocent Ukraine, wow can’t believe a country would go to war like this at the drop of a hat! Irrational aggressive Russia should just take their troops home and surrender all territory back to Ukraine, a country losing a war so badly it’s on the verge of collapse.

              • blarth@thelemmy.club
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                0
                arrow-down
                2
                ·
                edit-2
                1 year ago

                By your logic, I guess it’s time to eradicate the Jewish population from Israel and hand it back to Palestine, and hey, why not go back even further? Americans should be forced to move back to their countries of origin and hand all lands back to native Americans. Where does this logic lead to? Are you really advocating for wars to break out all over the world over historical deeds? Ukraine has been independent for a very long time. Why did Russia suddenly decide it’s their territory again? Is it about the territory or the supposed Nazis? Can you pro Russia propagandists make up your minds about what exactly the reason for the invasion is?

          • Skua@kbin.earth
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            0
            ·
            1 year ago

            Capturing Russian conscripts and territory is a useful card in negotiations, whether that is for a ceasefire or just a prisoner swap. Bringing the war into Russian territory also makes it more difficult for the Russian government to sell to the population

            • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              0
              ·
              1 year ago

              So far, conditions don’t seem to be pointing in Ukraines favor though. Maintaining an offensive is costly, and winter is approaching. Strategically, it could provide bargaining chips, but Russia just needs to wait it out while they maintain industrial advantages.

              It seems to me that this is ultimately not going to change the dynamic much, at the cost of Ukranian lives.

              • Skua@kbin.earth
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                0
                ·
                1 year ago

                I don’t think we should expect any given offensive by either side to completely overturn the whole war. A move also does not have to do that to be worthwhile. All it has to do to be worthwhile is cost Russia more than it costs Ukraine (relative to the resources available for each side). Given that Ukraine is destroying bridges, I don’t think that they intend to push much further unless a remarkable opportunity presents itself

                • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  0
                  ·
                  1 year ago

                  Yes, but offensives are usually costlier than defensives. Given that Ukranian equipment has come at a far greater cost than Russian equipment, Ukraine has to be extremely careful in any engagement to not fall behind materially.

            • AntiOutsideAktion@lemmy.ml
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              0
              ·
              1 year ago

              Bringing the war into Russian territory also makes it more difficult for the Russian government to sell to the population

              Absolute mind palace nonsense

        • Skua@kbin.earth
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          0
          ·
          1 year ago

          Welcome to the world of looking at every single world event through the lens of “America bad” and literally only that

        • nat_turner_overdrive [he/him]@hexbear.net
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          1
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          1 year ago

          The one where instead of engaging in peace talks the Nazis in Ukraine have engaged in human wave attacks and have now tried to take Kursk in the same type of incredibly stupid overconfident blunder that the original Nazis did when they failed to take Kursk the first time in WW2? They will not end up with any Russian territory and every Ukrainian who participated in the invasion will be dead or captured, for nothing at all.

    • Black_Mald_Futures [any]@hexbear.net
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      3
      arrow-down
      3
      ·
      1 year ago

      you are, and I cannot stress this enough, a moron

      Liberals like you are the reason we’re going to have world war 3, because you’re too fucking stupid to actually be aware of what’s going on in the world

  • Linktank@lemmy.today
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    1
    arrow-down
    3
    ·
    1 year ago

    This platform is so full of Putin bootlickers it’s crazy. Dude doesn’t give a shit about you.