The China-centric video sharing platform is expanding with a new international app and an English version of its website – with no identity verification (for now at least)
I trust this as much as I trust big American tech platforms.
Considering how much damage Google et al do, I legitimately wonder whether China could even do worse, and I’m not even a tankie.
Not terribly interested in this video platform as I also don’t use YouTube. I really hope Google gets broken up and I don’t like them harvesting my data and selling it to the US Government any more than I like companies like Bytedance selling my data to the Chinese Government. I am in the US and think we should have established data privacy and data protection laws long before things got to the point they have gotten too.
How do you do that? I would love to be able to avoid YouTube. I could go without the entertainment part of it, sure. But no more tutorials would already be a big pain. And then there are the news sites with embedded videos. Even the state uses it.
YouTube has single handedly almost nullified my degoogling project
At this point it should be claimed by the state and turned into a public utility…
If I have a project, I often prefer to read up on how to accomplish the task, such as going to blog posts or getting to the source documentation. If that is not possible, I use yewtu.be (it can be slow to load just FYI). There is also PeerTube, but it doesn’t have as much content. Lastly, there is FreeTube, which is built on YouTubes API and gives them revenue in some way, but doesn’t have ads. It doesn’t allow Google to learn your behavior or target you for ads. I also use a VPN (with DNS protection enabled) when loading anything. If you’re degoogling (as I and many have done), one other item I hear people say they have difficulty dropping is Google Maps. I know you didn’t ask about it, but just to add, other options exist, such as Open Street Maps (OSM), Organic Maps, CoMaps, Magic Earth (I think may be built on Google Maps API, but not entirely sure), and Kagi (I’m fairly sure it uses Apple Maps and Google Maps API). Also, I have just started looking into FlockHopper, but I’m not sure what it is built on, I think OSM and MapBox (not sure if I have that right), but I’m not sure. Also MapQuest still exists.
Youtube is about the last Alphabet service I knowingly use (except when someone shares a google doc).
I thought you meant no Youtube at all. I use Freetube and Newpipe almost exclusively.
Peertube too, when the instance I use to follow channels works (the two previous ones closed). It’s a pain to subscribe to stuff. Maybe with RSS feeds…edit: I’ve been subscribed to Kagi for a while too, maybe going two years. Love it. Wish it was cheaper
I really liked Qwant maps, a good use of OSM, but the idiots closed it…
I meant to say, not directly use their services for video and definitely aim to give them less identifiable information. Like Invidious’s Yewtu.be (https://yewtu.be/) scrapes YouTube and is not reliant on their API (but does give IP addresses to YouTube, hence the use of a VPN), but FreeTube uses YouTube’s API by default I think, but can use Invidious’s scrapping API (https://docs.freetubeapp.io/usage/privacy/). PeerTube is not reliant on YouTube at all and can be a good alternative even though it may have fewer videos (since you use that, then you’ve basically degoogled in that case). Maybe once a month or less I will watch a video from any of those services, so I don’t ever subscribe to any channels. I prefer to read documentation rather over watching videos when possible. To me that is in the spirit of degoogling. Same as I don’t avoid every website that has some script of Google under the hood. But I do block their trackers by activating “No Google” (https://github.com/nickspaargaren/no-google) from time to time if it doesn’t break a website (some website I need to access for work might not load if I have that on) and DuckDuckGo onionized on Tor mostly. I also need to use AlpaFold for work, but fortunately we have an instance that doesn’t go to Google’s servers. They created the protein folding technology and the instance and scripts had to be downloaded at some point from their servers. Degoogling is a fairly complex today. I have been reading more and more about digital cooperativism (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Platform_cooperative) and even though something may be open source, as expected, companies can still profit off of it. From the sounds of it, when it comes to cooperativism, no one person controls everything or profits. You may know more about this any how. All that said, giving people more digital privacy and protection is not a technological issue, but more of social issue. Hopefully people get more informed and interested in their digital rights in the future and society moves away from the likes of Google and Meta and Amazon and Apple (and OpenAI) at large.
Kagi switched Apple maps for Mapbox
Don’t fall for the proximity bias, china is decades ahead on surveillance and stepping on personal rights. They act as a hive. They care more for what they believe that are they nationals and may look harmless to us non-chinese… but i do fear them.
In any case, I dont see them pressing a button to launch swarms of AI commanded drones to kill every person on a partially AI generated list that they probably already have in their hands, right now… i leave that dystopia to israel alone.
Flock is selling drones in the US.
and stepping on personal rights.
The racial make-up of the prison population suggests that the lead is not that big.
The US has the largest prison population on the planet but China is the one stepping on people’s rights?
I get that the CCP sucks ass but come on. As far as I’m concerned YouTube needs a serious competitor, it’s not like I’m moving to Shenzhen or something. YouTube is a complete and utter shithole.
You don’t know about their social credit system?
China makes palantir look like freedom respecting software.
As far as I’m aware, google isn’t enacting a genocide… as far as I’m aware
Maybe not technically “enacting” but certainly supporting/furthering: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/google-reportedly-signs-45-million-contract-with-netanyahu-to-promote-israeli-messaging/ar-AA1LX8Lm
Sure, but Google’s just doing it because it’s profitable, not because they’re hell-bent on annihilating an ethnicity /s
Sure, if you remove the profit motive they wouldn’t provide resources.
Certainly not morally defensible… but also not outright evil either. Just absent any ethical compass.
IBM supplied the computing machines for the Holocaust, I wouldn’t be surprised if Google is giving cloud computing to ICE.
That means your awareness needs to be expanded my friend https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Nimbus
This is a good (but non-exhaustive) list to look through https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_companies_involved_in_the_Gaza_war
Or my definition of enacting.
okay. your awareness of how genocides work also need to be expanded.
I don’t know why but “Google et al” made me laugh
Yes they could, but it’s really a question of their incentives. They could easily use it to manipulate elections, etc. The biggest danger is probably to East Asia where China is trying to claim most of the ocean, using it to copy what US Republicans has been doing with Facebook and Twitter to support attacks on politicians opposing them. See also how Facebook ignored its role in the Myanmar genocide
Sure, but I’d rather have my info safely offshore in China than to give it right to big brother. I also bet far far fewer ads and more fun commercials because you have no idea what they are about. They are currently destoyjng the natural order in printer ink. I support that wholeheartedly. My Epson inks are 90 and the knockoffs are 20 and work just as well. It’s always temporarily beneficial when player 2 enters the market.
*Edit it does not like vpns. That’s a no for me.
Ah yes, instead of US big brother you give it to offshore Big Brother.
But China isn’t going to sell my data to Uncle Sam to help deport my family (who are legal citizens). So there’s that.
Why would you think that?
Who is more of a direct threat to US citizens ? At the moment I would say there’s way more chance ICE will come after you for posting or speaking out or protesting or hell just being you. I can’t remember the last time I worried about China selling me something because that’s what they will use the data for.
I’d say China is the greatest threat to U.S. sovereignty but that’s a discussion no one here seems to want to have. No one seems to think TikTok is an issue apparently.
Edit: it’s been an issue since musical.ly, just so we’re clear
Are you really sure? Oh wait, you’re from .ml you probably actually believe it.
Not absolutely sure… but I’ll take “Probably wouldn’t” over “Definitely already does.”
When you’re here, you’re family!
Big Boss
safely offshore in china
Lmao
Weird, the few times I’ve used it I had no problem with my VPN.
I’ll try again when I’m back on my own laptop.
the same as Tik Tok?
I’ve avoided that platform so yes if I’m understanding you correctly.
Political censorship is definitely worse so I‘m not going to bother.
This is one thing I noticed using Chinese social media. There are almost zero discussions of local politics. Foreign politics is fine though
There is no politics in Ba Sing Se.
You get nuked from orbit if you attempt to talk about local politics is why. Like hard.
Because YouTube doesn’t engage in anything like that ofc.
Are you seriously insinuating that the level of censorship on YouTube is anywhere close to Chinese platforms? A quick look on both websites would give you that answer very quickly.
YouTube has rapidly censoring more and more by way of demonetization and language policing.
And had to revert much of that after a ton of complaints
Depending on the politic
I can’t wait for this to be announced as a threat to national security.
Maybe things change in the future, but right now I see VHS tapes at local thrift shops as being bigger competition to houtube than this.
Ye ‘ol Fail Army or whatever the fuck they call that stream of content now
Probably has a few same videos that still get shown everywhere?
Gamers Nexus started to print their videos on DVDs and Blurays recently
Y’know, free market
Absolutely already a national security concern, but also technically already banned by the bill which banned TikTok.
Question is how hard they need to stroke Trump for it to be unenforceable.
What is the national security concern?
Psychological operations and warfare, mainly disinformation campaigns akin to TikTok used to sway political sentiment in favor of authoritarians such as Trump.
Equally bad: extreme data gathering, also akin to tiktok.
I guess. TikTok did raise awareness of the Gaza genocide and, by extension, create instability in the US. It also distanced the public from the US government’s closest ally, Israel.
https://www.theverge.com/features/761076/gaza-images-starvation-tiktok-ban
It directly promoted GOP leading up to 2024 and even Trump by name:
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2026/may/06/tiktok-pro-republican-algorithm-2024-election
Then they did the exact same thing by promoting the AFD in Germany:
This has NOT distanced the USA from Israel; they have never been closer. The GOP are pushing bills that will combine Israel military with the USA’s.
Brother, according to that logic, YouTube is a national security risk. I was refering to things the American govt labels as a national security risk to protect corporate interests.
Considering their company leadership backs Republicans which are harmful to US national security, yes
YouTube is run by a company within the USA.
That does not compare to a company run by a hostile dictatorship’s military.
Nor has it had nearly the same impact: there was a 10 point shift among youth voters in favor of conservatives after TikTok, a complete reversal of a century old trend.
BRB, gonna upload something about Tianaamen Square.
Same old shit, different day. Can’t you find anything original? Post something negative about ICE on YouTube or something negative about Israel.
I got perma banned from reddit because of my comment that all the ICE traitors will never get their sign on bonus - which they haven’t - and after this is all over, they will have to go back to sucking immigrant cock behind the dollar store.
So don’t talk to me about propaganda and censorship. Western tech companies are just as bad if not worse. Especially Twitter or X or Y or whatever that shit is called, doesn’t know the first thing about free speech. Not that surprising if the owner does a Hitler salute.
Edit: one last thing. How much better is the American TikTok after it was taken over by another right wing company? Yeah, I thought so.
Believe it or not, two separate things can both be bad.
So should an article about a Chinese app not automatically get the ‘Tiananmen square’ response. Or any article about China for that matter. Like a Pavlov reaction.
Should an article about a Chinese app not get a comment about Chinese censorship?
No. It’s highly relevant.
The what response?
The scale is different. There are tons of videos on social media right now that are thinly veiled instructions on how to destroy flock cameras. Something like that would NOT fly in china.
They will just remove it
site not found
Great firewall strikes again
YouTube’s censorship has become worse than cable TV’s (in the US). I have a feeling that BiliBili will only further normalize the aggressive censorship, like TikTok did.
I mean. This is… Not worse than now, I guess?
Any entity that can take a chunk out of YouTube’s dominance is a good thing.
But I’m not going to celebrate another corp making a shamelessly monetized video site. They’re independent-ish now, yes, but for how long? It’s just a different flavor of attention gaming and enshittification in the long run.
And I’m skeptical they have the muscle to significantly displace YouTube’s iron grip on everything, even with Google tightening the screws.
Yes! We have peertube which is actually cool.
thats good news youtube was mainstream so looong that it becomes to eat itself slowly seeing some competitions maybe lead the long form video market better
I just downloaded it. No sign up necessary but it asks for a birthdate. (I just picked June 4 1989 randomly, ofc.)
It uses AI to translate from Chinese to your selected language. The image below shows available languages.
You don’t need to login to upvote videos. However, you not be able to comment or reply. Also, viewing comments is limited.
To create your account, you have to provide your phone number, which is an automatic “not happening” for me.
Once your phone number is “bound”, you can link your Google account for your login. This will make it easier for East-West cooperation in data mining and mass surveillance.
You can also use an email and password of your own choosing.
Overall, I can’t see me actually binding my phone number to make an account.
Anyway, here’s what my feed looked like when I opened the app and skipped account creation/login:
Some AI looking slop, of course.
Of the first dozen or so, only two seemed interesting - the Rick Roll meme history and a Brazilian explaining how to use “lá ele” in conversation. (I speak Brazilian Portuguese so this was actually very cool to see.)
I’m all for it, America needs to be reminded of what capitalism actually is.
Hey, I welcome any serious competition. Youtube has devolved into a much more censored platform than what we used to make fun of the Chinese for. “Unalive”, “grape”, and several topics that are demonetized on sight.
I found clip.place , a peertube instance really good alternative to YouTube. I am sure there are others.
Thing is peertube is still pretty much new and empty. I didn’t find much content that I would be interested in or even an interesting community. Although I see its potential as a social platform I don’t think it will ever replace YouTube (at least for me) as it wouldn’t give creators the financial incentive to use it.
YouTube barely gives a financial incentive for most creators, that’s why most of them take sponsorship deals and/or use Patreon.
YouTube payout for creators is %55 of ad revenue generated per video.
PeerTube payout for creators is the ability to add a donation button on your page.
You ain’t got to lie Craig.
Tbh as someone who wouldn’t be in it for the money PeerTube seems awesome. And if you were in it for the money, imagine being like the first big channel on there? You’d probably really do well.
Do you understand what “barely” means? I didn’t say no financial incentive, I said barely. And Youtube taking almost half of your ad revenue (which itself is pocket change unless you’re a channel focused on investing, law, software development or real estate or you’re a channel regularly making over 100k videos) is barely a financial incentive. People complain about Valve taking 30% from game sales and Youtube takes 45%.
But you are correct in the sense that you can still make decent money with Youtube ads. But to make worthwhile money you need to make videos in the niches advertisers like, target an audience advertisers like (almost exclusively English speaking audience) and make videos that make at least over 1k views (which instantly puts you in the top 10% of content creators). Or be in the top 1% of content creators and average over 100k views per video. If you’re making something like gaming videos for 10k viewers Youtube pays you around $5 per video. At that point for the same video and viewers you’re probably going to make more money from the Peertube donation button than Youtube ad revenue.
So no, I’m not lying.
The financial incentive is a big part of what ruined YouTube in the first place, so the lack of it is a W in my book. If a creator really is that good, I’ll support them directly.
These things take time. Depends on instances. There are audience for YouTube. I am happy to bet on Peertube.
I wouldn’t say 8 years is new
but those terms come from TikTok in the first place
I’ve heard of Billibilli. It’s great for pirated films and TV shows that you can’t get anywhere else.
I don’t really trust it to be much better at respecting privacy than YouTube, but at this point, I’d be surprised if it was any worse, and YouTube has been getting worse for lack of competition for over a decade now
Good. Seriously - enough with YouTube’s vs censorship and making predators like Jake Paul and mr beast into millionaires
Edit: Ugh… checked on bilibili and noticed he also has a channel there. The guy is like a parasite to humanity
Thank you for pointing out that shitnugget, its enough for me to know that i never will use bilis platform out of sheer principle
I mean if another competitor rises up, he’ll just create an account there too. You’re stuck with peertube pretty much
Bilibili isn’t going to be any better about censorship. It just has a slightly different list of forbidden topics.
Google is such a bully, I want china to succeed.
Unless I can make A whole channel dedicated to 1989 Massacre Im not interested.
People in this thread having a normal one, predictably. Like even if (or especially if) you genuinely believe that China is the evil monster you were raised to believe, wouldn’t you be at least a little bit curious to get a window into their online culture? Don’t you want an opportunity for more interaction between Chinese and US/Western netizens?
On the one hand, Chinese companies get an unfair advantage domestically. On the other, I would love to see Google sweat.
Literally every company is given a domestic advantage in their home country? Subsidies and visibility etc in home turf is not a new concept China has invented for their products.
How many foreign films are allowed into China per year?
What is an unfair advantage?
Hell ignore that, Google helps to write us trade policies. Do people really think there’s an open free market system in America or Europe for that matter? Look at Donald Trump’s inauguration. The Peasants were kept out but all the tech bro CEOs were there. Y’all are dreaming if you think that things are fair right now. Especially if you don’t think it’s a two-way street.
Being blocked is one I think
I just dislike the traditional framing of things like “unfair” in contexts like this. It’s always been used by dominant powers to destroy any domestic capacity. In this example, if China had never put up any barriers to foreign tech, they would have none of their own at all by now.
As an American I’ve been using billibilli for a long long time as I consume a lot of Chinese media.
Billibilli is dog shit, the company is awful, the platform is cancer, and the entire thing makes YouTube and Google look like fucking saints.
Like holy fuck. I do not give one fucking flying piece of shit about china bad america good or any of that nonsense.
The fucking Chinese bullshit that people have to put up with on billibilli is outright nonsense. I just want to watch my fucking silly videos and dramas.
So… what? You’re against this becoming more accessible outside of China?
I’m not the commenter you replied to but I read their view more along these lines. That no large online video provider gives a good experience and while this is more competition for YouTube it’s kind of like comparing two piles of shit - both stink.
Which idk never used it but yeah China has its own brand of suck compared with the West. Still, I agree it’d be good to have more cultural exchange - that’s the sort of thing that over time leads to better relations between nation states and decreases the likelihood of war.
You know the older I get, the lesson of “there are no good guys” really keeps getting hammered home. This is just a reminder of that.
These reactions just seem a little overwrought to me. I’m sure everyone commenting watches plenty of YouTube, but the mere mention of a Chinese platform brings dire warnings and energetic condemnations. Like maybe it does suck, but most people here wouldn’t really know! That’s my point-- that it’s crazy to have such strong opinions about something that you have no experience with.
I get it. There’s a lot of propaganda out there (that goes both ways) about China.
For better or worse they’re going to lead the charge into the 2100s, this is the dawn of the new Chinese century and the USA is busy handing them the reins as we implode our country.
I think China is a little friendlier overall in their foreign relations and while freedom of expression is important I would not say their society as a whole is better or worse than all the rest of the world. It feels like sometimes, from what I’ve heard and seen, China is “more” free in certain aspects compared to the USA (and definitely less free in others)
What I believe is in freedom of the internet. As in everyone should be able to access it and no one should be able to police what is on it. Complete free flow of information. Reddit should exist in the state that it does and lemmy should be there to counter balance it and no nation state should be able to say “no, we only allow one of these”. This doesn’t undermine any existing legal frameworks mind you. For example: distribution of underage pornography is still a crime almost everywhere and those who operate such sites are fair game for prosecution.
I get this may be too radical of an idea for some, but I truly believe education is the key to information literacy, not censorship.
This just means rich individuals decide what people see instead of states. It doesn’t result in education.
No they don’t. If I don’t want to see what Reddit wants me to see, I just switch to Lemmy instead. Reddit cannot ban Lemmy. But if the state had censorship powers, they could ban Lemmy.
I think its the same problem with the press on TV and print form. Rich individuals can buy up all press outlets and control the narrative. Its hard (and restrictive) to broadcast on TV and print. On the internet, at least the freedom to publish and access information has a low barrier to entry. A rich individual may buy one lemmy instance, can they buy them all? Can they buy its successor? The lower barrier and less restrictive nature of the internet (or how it should be) is too fast moving for them to compete imo. All the states need to do is educate people on how to consume media correctly.
A rich individual may buy one lemmy instance, can they buy them all?
Yes, easily. Additionally, they can control the search engines which lead there or not, the commonly used platforms for code sharing so that development is more difficult, and so forth. They have an incredible advantage through economy of scale. The barrier to entry for putting any information on the internet may not be very high, but making it findable and accessible has a very high barrier, and relies on corporate-controlled platforms.
I think the better question is will they be able to buy them all. Buying implies the other party is willing to sell.
Its true that this information will be harder to access if not indexed properly, but word of mouth is a good backup for that. I didn’t find lemmy from google, someone (non corporate entity) posted a link to it somewhere. Now, that ‘somewhere’ may be corporate controlled and ban certain links but I’d argue that will just split the internet into two (a corporate side and “free” side) with little cooperation between them and I don’t think anyone will be able to keep people from either side - as long as the internet remains neutral.
I think its just too hard to completely control information unless you are a nation state (and even then).
This isn’t a new idea though, it was the “hacker” ethos of the 90s. Most nerds believed in that. But it was wrong because we do need to limit hate speech. Because racist speech is racist recruitment. And we do need to limit the influence of plutocrats and corporations on information.
I also believe neoliberalism is a failed and genocidal ideology that should similarly be banned like advocating for fascism.
Like the other commenter pointed out the other problem is the massive power imbalance. They have billions and they crush us. It doesn’t matter if something is right or wrong if billions are spend to hire the smartest sociopaths to craft an ad or PR campaign to emotionally manipulate the masses.
And the truth matters. We have a fundamental human right to reality. Constantly amplifying bullshit for revenue makes the actual flow of important information and ideas impossible.
OK?
You can already get a VPN for ingoing traffic to China and “experience” it.
I’m missing your point. I started interacting with Chinese people on XHS.
It’s not for us to decide that. CCP is literally holding Chinese hostage and even if this platform comes to the west the Chinese will never be allowed to mingle with us.
I think chinese internet is very interesting and wish China would be part of global internet one day but until autocrats change their mind it’s not happening.
Literally none of what you said is true. Chinese people regularly interact with people of other countries on the global internet. its Literally impossible not to run into Chinese netizens on any major social media site.
What is not true? The great firewall of China doesnt exist? Or that few rebels with vpns that btw are constantly hunted down and ccp even inspects packets now with AI tools I identify vpn looking traffic?
Can’t believe people justify this. You’re either a bot or a useful idiot.
You can literally just make an account on Xiaohongshu and chat with normal people in China.
I routinely swap recipes, talk about video games, new tech, swap cleaning tips, chat about restaurant recommendations and fashion. There’s a big cultural difference, sure, but Chinese people are, on the whole, incredibly friendly and hospitable and they’re curious about breaking down the myths they’ve heard about America and happy to break down the myths we’ve heard about China. We think they have a social credit system and they think a dishwasher can afford a huge “villa”. Though now that it’s opened up a bit they talk about a poverty “kill line” where if you fall below a certain income you are pretty much doomed to die. Which is exaggerated, but has some basis in reality, like most of these myths.
The one thing I think is a huge barrier is that they can’t understand why we drink cold water, even in the winter. So many conversations I’ve had have been about drinking cold water and asking “don’t you get dampness???” Honey, I’ve either never had dampess or I’ve been damp my whole life so I don’t know.
Either way, they’re just, like, people. And thanks to the magic of the internet, you can just talk to those people.
Missing my point entirely that Chinese people literally can’t do that.
Also it’s very hard to get into Chinese internet from the west too with this one exception almost everything is either geo blocked or requires Chinese id/phone number.
