- cross-posted to:
- technology@beehaw.org
- technology@beehaw.org
- cross-posted to:
- technology@beehaw.org
- technology@beehaw.org
The technicalities of usernames and underscores makes this seem more complicated than it really is:
“Without any evidence whatsoever we convicted a man named Joe Smith, because we had been told that there was some man somewhere named Joe Smith, who was suspected of being a criminal.”
That is mortifying. I hope he was able to rebuild his life afterwards, and that the stigma didn’t follow him around everywhere.
I once got accused of a hit-and-run because they presumably entered the wrong licence plate? I eventually got off when I was able to prove I was in another city at the time, but I was totally freaking out!
The creepy part was there was another car of the same make, model, and colour that often parked near us at the apartment complex and its plate only differed from ours by 1 letter. It was bad enough that my wife eventually attached a little foam ball to the head of the radio antenna so we could tell our car apart.
I’ve thought about that since, and concluded it’s not as statistically improbable as you might think? Licence plates are issued in blocks that just go up sequentially, so finding someone living nearby with an almost-identical number is probably pretty common. And if you both bought the car new, there’s a decent chance it will be the same model.
“I do assure you, Mrs. Buttle, the Ministry is very scrupulous about following up and eradicating any error. But if you do have any complaints you wish to make, I’d be, well, only too happy to send you the appropriate forms.”
They keep pushing for chat control but can’t even check usernames. On top of that conclude it with witch hunt madness. Brandon Klayme deserves a significant financial compensation and a profuse public apology.
This was in USA and Canada. EU laws do not apply there as far as I know.
I accept your correction, but in my defence, since the USA is ran by the unaccountable Epstein et al, I’d say that my comment still applies. If not even more so.
This is a failure of the courts. But I agree that tools like chat control or using AI to find child abuse (as has been inappropriately used by Google and Meta to falsely accuse people of such crimes) should not be the norm. I blame NCMEC for that and a lot of the current situation. That organization just wants to have numbers of reports go up year after year to secure funding. They also want to get rid of all adult content. So now we end up with situations where unshared innocent family photos and legal adult content get reported. Which reporting itself is not an issue, but then what follows where innocent people are often never given their account data back is an issue. It sometimes takes multiple layers to resolve the issue, such as click workers, NCMEC, LEOs, the courts, etc. This case shows that all levels of checks can fail.
I’m okay with using AI to find child abuse as long as we have human verification at the end. It’s more of a privacy issue for me, like how google runs their detection models in private drives and then autobans, very easy to get false positives I imagine.
Same. After the NYT articles (and several others from other news agencies), I stopped using Google for storage of personal files as I no longer trust their AI. Private (technically they call them personal) files should not be analyzed, unless there is a very high level of necessity. Scanning around the clock should not be done, just like we don’t need cameras in every home because bad things happen in homes. I also get that people will say make backups and that the cloud is optional. But an email address itself can be vital and is unable to be backed up (as far as I’m aware you can only back up the emails themselves). I doubt they are doing any better than if they just reported accounts at random. I mean reporting millions of accounts a year will probably catch some bad actors. And that they lock you out of all other data and won’t give your account back even after you are proven innocent is beyond insane. I don’t necessarily even think that emails should be scanned either. I get anything that is (or is about to be) made public needs to be scrutinized. Just my two cents.
Edit: Google claims humans are in the reviewing the accounts, but you also have to ask what conditions those people are under. Are they highly trained? Are they looking at the worst of the worst every day? Are they pressured to just follow the recommendations of the AI? Or are they just trusting the AI and rubber stamping the results? Do they just pass the buck? I don’t think the current system was ever ment to handle the volume of accusations spurred on by AI. Google and Meta are at the forefront, but it’s the NCMEC that is the one really pushing for more volume.
Possesion of cp. When they clearly could show that he had none. Hmmm. How did this happen? No review of any evidence in a court room?
Sounds like a bunch of shitty jurors just decided to blindly say guilty. No evidence? Well, I’m just gonna side with the police because they’re gonna protect the world, right? Fucking disgusting
Yeah this is more a failure of the court system.
It is outrageous that he could be convicted on absolutely zero evidence beyond a username “match” anyway! This case had way more problems than just a damn typo!
Yeah they had no proof, knew he hadn’t used that Kik social network, had him do his full term before he event got an appeal, treated what ab best if done correctly might have been a clue as a proof… They didn’t make a mistake, they didn’t care to not make one.
But surely now that justice has recognised that someone has had 18 months of his life stolen with no legitimacy whatsoever they’re gonna enact reforms and indict the cops, prosecutors and judges responsible right? right?
I don’t get how law people involved in something like this can even live with themselves afterward. The fact that they don’t resign out of shame is criminal
“They had similar usernames, he’s probably a pedophile too, he deserved his sentence and I’ll lock him up again if his name crosses my desk. He’s on thin ice.”
They lie to themselves and others constantly to justify their actions, and get extremely angry at anyone who points out anything ever in any way. Or, they openly hate most people. It’s like being around a glass of nitroglycerine.
Anakin stare
Full text since there isn’t a summary:
Text
One missing underscore in a Skyrim-themed username put an innocent Nova Scotia man in prison for 18 months.
A 2018 child-luring investigation, which began in Madison, Wisconsin, and eventually extended to Halifax, Canada, was based on a false premise.
Police were looking for a man using the Kik messaging service under the name “fus__ro_dah” (two underscores after “fus”), but they accidentally requested records for the username “fus_ro_dah” (one underscore after “fus”). This one-character difference led them not to the perpetrator but to a Canadian man named Brandon Klayme.
(Ars readers may recognize “fus ro dah” as the Unrelenting Force “dragon shout” from The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim.)
Despite finding no evidence of the crime on his digital devices, Canadian police arrested Klayme in 2020 on child sex abuse charges. He was convicted after a trial in 2023 and sentenced in 2024 to 18 months in prison. He served the full term.
Even after release, Klayme continued to fight his conviction. In the process of preparing his appeal, the username mistake that led to all these years of disruption was finally discovered. On Thursday, the Nova Scotia Court of Appeal overturned Klayme’s conviction, writing: “Mr. Klayme is factually innocent of the offences. He should never have been charged, let alone convicted.” One underscore
The case began in 2018. From August through December of that year, a 12-year-old Wisconsin girl communicated with an adult male through the Kik messaging service. During a check of the girl’s phone, her mother found an “inappropriate” photo of the male and called local police.
The Dane County Sheriff’s Department responded. A deputy took the phone, and the department ran a forensic search on it. The report identified 125 Kik messages between the girl and an adult with the username “fus__ro_dah” (two underscores after “fus”).
To identify this person, the cops contacted Kik, but their subpoena accidentally requested information about the Kik user “fus_ro_dah” (one underscore after “fus”). Kik provided Klayme’s email address in response.
Google records showed that this email address was used to access Google services from an IP address in Canada, so the Dane County investigators turned the case over to Halifax Regional Police. Halifax police took the IP address they had been given to local Internet provider Bell Aliant. Bell connected the IP address to the physical address of their subscriber, Brandon Klayme.
The cops then obtained a search warrant for Klayme’s residence and took phones and laptops from his bedroom. Searching these devices produced no evidence relevant to the case. Nothing linked Klayme to the girl. No intimate images were found. Klayme did have a Kik account, but cops couldn’t even show that he had accessed the service during the period in question.
Still, Klayme was arrested and hit with three charges:
Luring a person under 14 years of age by means of telecommunication Providing sexually explicit material to a child Possession of child pornographyThe case went to trial, where Klayme was found guilty. He then went to prison for 18 months. No one involved, even on the defense side, appears to have noticed the username confusion. The appeal
Klayme continued to press his appeal, but only late in the process did his team figure out what had happened. Here’s how Klayme himself describes the discovery:
In the latter stages of preparing my appeal arguments, it was discovered that the subpoena contained a subtle mistake that changed the course of my life. Instead of requesting details for the username “fus__ro_dah”, the subpoena requested details for the username “fus_ro_dah”. The police officer did not notice that the perpetrator’s Kik username “fus__ro_dah” contains a double underscore. This discrepancy went completely unnoticed at the trial. It was never brought to the attention of the trial judge.After this was pointed out, prosecutors took another look. They agreed that Klayme’s appeal should be allowed. Had the case been properly investigated, the court says now, evidence “would have identified an individual whose first name is Jay whose IP address appears to be in California.”
Given this, the Court of Appeal last week acquitted Klayme on all charges. His sentence (including his ongoing probation) was vacated.
How could such a crucial mistake have been missed for so long? No one seems to know. As the court puts it, “Although the information about the usernames was available at the time of the trial, there is no evidence confirming or explaining how it went unnoticed
Scary how he was convicted for “possession of child pornography” when the cops found nothing.
And the hearing where I assume no evidence was produced.
Well, that’s terrifying.
Time to sue Wisconsin police dept for fucking that one up!! The Canadians did their job based on false information!
The Canadians locked him up with zero evidence except the username.
The wrong username too!
Maybe the Canadian police, but the Canadian court did not. They convicted him with zero corroborating evidence and without carefully comparing the chat logs with his actual account.
Where the heck was his defense attorney during all this?
The Canadians did their job
no they did not. i would agree with you if all Canadian authorities did was search the computers but once they found nothing, it should have eneded. how do you convict a man with no evidence?
And real culprit is still our there free doing his thing. That’s fuck up and I blame his attorney as well. Probably PD who didn’t give a shit and was "forced to represent the pedophile "
Feel bad for man he didn’t just lose 18 months of his life. But everything. His home, probably his job. On top of some people he knew will always look at him differently and some will believe he is guilty. He needs millions upon millions of dollars. But if we really want to fix this shit. Prosecute the judge, prosecutor and fucking police and give them just as much time.
Maybe then they think twice when trying to Prosecute an innocent person.
Probably under the assumption the data was deleted. But yeah, the fact a typo was missed by all is rough
Probably under the assumption the data was deleted.
Which is why allowing that sort of inference to be made, under any circumstances, is absolutely tyrannical.
Poor Harry Buttle
The Dane County Sheriff’s Department got the wrong man. I got the right man. The wrong one was delivered to me as the right man, I accepted him on good faith as the right man. Was I wrong?
The spelling difference was subtle.
Well how about a refund?
Harry
You’re right! Fixed
We’re all in it together kid.
Can’t imagine what he went through.
“Wasn’t me,
there must have been a mistake,
this is all just one huge mistake!”“We make no mistakes!!”











