For anyone wondering if Threads and Facebook at large will be a fine neighbor in the space and compatible with other apps/services in the fediverse: they’re already automatically hiding comments that mention Pixelfed https://mastodon.social/@dansup/112126250737482807
Repeat after me: I will not federate with any Meta products.
I will not federate with any meta products.
I will not federate with any meta products.
I will not federate with any meta products.
I will not federate with any meta products
I will not federate with any meta products
I will not federate with any meta products
I will not federate with any meta products
Serious question: how do we - the end users - stop federating with Meta?
Move to an instance that won’t.
Burying your head in the sand doesn’t change the fact that whatever LW does will affect all of Lemmy. They’re too big.
That sounds like a problem for instances federated with Meta. Empathy is cool but they are not our problem.
Migrate away from instances that embrace Meta to those that do not. Choose an instance that aligns with you.
Or in the extreme case, if you’re the first who can’t find such an instance and you’re technically inclined, there’s your room for a new instance. It’s how the fediverse works and partly why Meta is so intent on destroying it.
How does one find a list of instances that aren’t federated with meta?
EDIT: removed comment due to outdated and inaccurate information.
after me: I will not federate with any Meta products.
I’m kind of stupid and more here just because it tends to be better discussion than Reddit: what does “federate with” mean in this context??
Thanks!
@Minotaur @henfredemars @technology You are using an account on lemm.ee to reply to someone commenting from an account on infosec.pub in a community hosted on lemmy.world.
Those are all running Lemmy software, but I am replying from an account on social.goodanser.com, which is running Mastodon software.
That’s federation. We’re all using different service providers, sometimes even different software, but we can talk to each other because they speak the same protocol, called ActivityPub. Threads.net has announced plans to support ActivityPub and conducted some limited trials, which they’re in the process of expanding. They claim they intend to support it fully, but only for users who opt in to it.
Servers can block, or “defederate from” other servers, and many have chosen to preemptively defederate from Threads.
Wait did I miss something big? Does Lemmy now federate with Mastodon somehow? How does that work?
Always has. Anything using ActivittPub can interoperate
I was under the impression that it theoretically could but wasn’t set up in a way that made this possible. But perhaps I was mistaken.
How do I access Mastodon content using my account here then?
You’ve had some well-meaning but ultimately not quite accurate answers in this thread so just to clarify:
You can follow, post to and interact with Lemmy communities from Mastodon, because they’re treated the same way as a “group” on Mastodon in general.
You can NOT follow and interact with Mastodon users from Lemmy, because Mastodon accounts are individual “users” and Lemmy doesn’t have the concept of following and interacting with users, only with communities. If Lemmy ever does add a feature to let us follow other users, then in theory following Mastodon users will also become possible.
As far as I know it’s always been this way. At least since I joined during the whole reddit fiasco
How do you access Mastodon content in Lemmy?
It doesn’t work so well in that direction. Lemmy doesn’t have a concept of content that isn’t posted to a community. If a Mastodon post tags a Lemmy community, it’s available as a normal Lemmy post, but otherwise it doesn’t exist.
FWIW I think this is intentional and a feature, not a bug. By spreading content to communities, you can delegate moderation responsibility much easier.
Content not posted to any community would need something akin to a site-wide moderator or an admin to moderate, and such a moderator wouldn’t be as effective. They’d cover a wider array of very different content. Community moderators work better because they can define rules that are only confined to their comm and they know better how to moderate their own community and they also care more about their own community so are more motivated to keep it well-moderated in the fashion they want.
Very interesting. Appreciate the response. Didn’t know big companies like meta had any interest in the whole “federation” gig, seeing that it seems a little “opposed” to the kind of big revenue that supports tech companies like that
And now I’m commenting from a lemmy.world account because Lemmy from Mastodon has some rough edges like the need to tag the community in my comment above to ensure it actually reaches the lemmy.world server.
Tumblr and Flickr are also talking about ActivityPub support, but it’s not clear if or when that will actually happen. It would make more sense to me for those services since they’re fairly small and it’s a way to substantially increase the possible audience. It’s not clear what Meta’s motivations are here, though a motivation some have proposed is that they’re trying to get in front of potential regulation. The EU Digital Markets Act, for example requires some services to interoperate with competitors, and having one of its new products join an established standard protocol is a way to say “you don’t need to regulate us, we already do the thing”.
I don’t think their blocking of comments mentioning Pixelfed is intentional. Pixelfed is not popular enough for Meta to care about as a competitor, and blocking mentions of competitors has never been among their tactics.
Appreciate this response, it seems to make a lot of sense to me.
I think people on sites like Lemmy and similar can kind of uhh… overestimate how much anyone outside of a very niche crowd care about the whole “federalization” movement, and yeah it seems unlikely to me that Threads is going out of its way to shadowban a (comparatively) niche competitor like Pixelfed
mEtA wOnT dEsTrOy ThE fEdIvErSe. wE sHoUlD lEt tHrEaDs In
Let’s just give them a chance guys. They haven’t done anything bad yet. It will help the fediverse grow. We need their content
wE cAn AlwAyS dEfeDeraTe lAtEr. It dEfinIteLy WoN’T bE tOo LaTe tHeN
Yeah because that’s an opinion people have
Oh no, it was everywhere, and I got into some decent arguments with those lovely people who ask you to show them how it’s going to have any effect on the fediverse at all, complete with citations.
WeLl hOw Do YoU KnOw?
Buddy, search for Threads related posts from a few months back. This was seriously in question.
It still is. I think more folks percentage-wise are OK now than were then. Had the argument just yesterday. I’m not seeing nearly enough pitchforks, and it worries me.
I have to post this again sorry
It’d be a damn shame if everyone started putting pixelfed at the end of every message to both deny threads content and create a Streisand effect.
Picks “el fed”
I’m Pixelfed Rick
I tested this and I did not got blocked or anything. https://www.threads.net/@mogoh_viol/post/C4xsvpKMZb8 So I assume, this was just an accident.
I know everybody loves to hate meta, I am am not a fan either, but I find it hard to belive that they outright ban the word pixelfed.
So something changed between then and now. Wish the picture had absolute timestamps instead of the relative ones. I’m on mobile so I’m not about to try to dive into EXIF to find out when that was happening.
Or maybe the original post was simply muted for a different reason.
The Pixelfed team stated (https://mastodon.social/@pixelfed/112138024510274956) that users were not able to reproduce the issue, so this is most likely a fake news.
I followed the link to the mastodon post and saw this edit
“Edit: As mentioned below, it appears to be a bug, not intentional!”
Of course it was. 🙄
I wish I could go back to a Lemmy thread showing how Mastodon and other Fediverse instances were blocking Meta ahead of it’s integration, where people went “Oh you’re just being paranoid, why would they do that?” And when given examples of companies taking open standards and either making themselves the biggest source of users or killing it (Microsoft, Google, Apple) they either went “Well that happened in 2006, it’s 2023!”
I know the bootlickers wouldn’t actually change their mind, but jesus christ. It’s frustrating for groups of advocates to be ignored and proven right each time. Cassandra syndrome is real.
What are these examples and how do they relate to what Meta is doing?
I just feel like this strategy won’t work for activitypub. The whole idea is to make interoperable web platforms. If meta tries to damage that then I don’t see why activitypub developers would cooperate when it’s against the whole purpose of the project.
I don’t think you have to know how the poison works to know the snake bite will kill you.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Facebook#Criticisms_and_controversies
They will come here (edit: They HAVE come here) with a goal of exploiting and controlling the fediverse. You and I don’t have to know how they will do that in order for it to be true. Scrubbing links to a product that competes with Instagram from threads seems like a decent start though.
I mean I am completely unsurprised by their misbehavior, I’m just slightly more optimistic about our ability to resist them.
That said, the one danger I can see is Meta gaining more authority over the activitypub developers. That is probably something worth being vigilant about.
I’m just slightly more optimistic about our ability to resist them.
What form would such resistance take if not advocating loudly for defederation?
it’s almost as if a company that helped incite an ethnic cleansing just a few years ago, hosts far right stochastic terrorists like libs of tiktok (despite the owner repeatedly breaking meta’s own rules) and actively suppressed the voices of Palestinians and posts that criticised Israel doesn’t make for a good instance to federate with.
it was immensely irresponsible for any instance to federate with them, let alone the largest one.
Who didn’t this coming? Seriously, meta will take what they want to increase the capital and makes everything else invisible.
Fediverse isn’t here to say yes to everything. We have the freedom to say no and this is the power of the fediverse. It’s allowing and denying. And Meta is a threat to the fediverse.
This also could cause a Streisand effect, just like Elon Musk did it with Stonetoss and Hans Kristian Graebener.
Musk and neonazi artist Stonetoss? Tell me more
-
After a lot of data-diving, people doxx Stonetoss. They found two live recordings, which confirm he was RedPanels. On gab, he used an email starting with hgraebener, then further data diving confirms his name.
-
While it wasn’t 100% sure to this point, he begun blocking any leftist accounts he could, then beg Elon to “protect free speech”, which pretty much confirms it.
-
Extreme crackdown on doxxing begin. People reported timeouts just for posting the name, or the link to Know Your Meme about Stonetoss, which now contains the doxx, as well the memes related to it.
-
Who didn’t this coming?
Mastodon’s CEO, apparently.
Will Meta embrace-extend-extinguish the ActivityPub protocol? There are comparisons to be made between Meta adopting ActivityPub for its new social media platform and Meta adopting XMPP for its Messenger service a decade ago. There was a time when users of Facebook and users of Google Talk were able to chat with each other and with people from self-hosted XMPP servers, before each platform was locked down into the silos we know today. What would stop that from repeating? Well, even if Threads abandoned ActivityPub down the line, where we would end up is exactly where we are now. XMPP did not exist on its own outside of nerd circles, while ActivityPub enjoys the support and brand recognition of Mastodon.
That is a stunning display of naïveté.
Huh, well look at that. Meta being exactly as bad a corporate citizen as one would expect. This is why defederation is wise. I have no patience for the folks who think we’re somehow not being fair to poor old Meta.
Support the fedipact.
Push your instance to defederate.
They are not and will never be a positive contributor to the fediverse. It’s another thing to exploit, enshittify, and ruin for them, that’s all.
https://wedistribute.org/2023/06/fedipact-blocking-meta/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Facebook#Criticisms_and_controversies
Edit: I’ll be one more guy posting this link so interested folks can easily check if their instance has defederated, and make a decision from there. https://fedipact.veganism.social/
I’m glad to see my instance is part of the FediPact! Thanks for the link.
This is a by-the-book and extremely predictable case of Embrace, Extend, Extinguish.
Agreed.
For people who wish to know which instances are federated/defederated with Threads check here https://fedipact.veganism.social/
Go feddit.uk (◍•ᴗ•◍)❤
I just…
I just do not get the twitter framework for social media. Like I appreciate you mastodon bros, but what the hell is actually going on over there. I had the same issue with twitter. What the hell even is this?
It’s an convenient way to post about some trending topic, without creating a whole new community for something temporary. For example the eurovision sing festival, or some natural disaster that happened.
And on the other hand, it works for expressing some personal thoughts or memes without having to adhere to a specific topic. But with random strangers instead of only your facebook friends.
I think for these kind of needs, no other social media framework would comply better.
I guess I get it, but like, sorting by all or new kind of does the same thing…
I do see that it is popular, but the ‘feel’ is just that its a bunch of people shouting at each other across a cafeteria.
It’s not. You have the “explore” tab which is more like “today’s viral toots” (which tend to be a lot more varied than Lemmy’s “All/Top 24h” since Lemmy is a link aggregator and doesn’t really lend itself to jotting down thoughts or diatribes), and you have your personal timeline which is people you actively follow. It’s not a cafeteria, it’s your RSS feed.
Where it gets shouty is in replies, especially as those get federated weirdly. But that’s only a problem for the few percent of users who are making content, not for consumers.
viral toots
This is… its a thing.
What a weak thing for such a big company to do. Censor the mention of an open source competitor that almost no one uses.
I think it’s a lot more common than most people would realize. Capitalism hates talking about things that let’s normal people do things for free.
That’s why we as regular people need to spread the word as effectively as possible.
What’s the point of planning to integrate with activitypub if they do shit like this?
To overrule it
What’s a pixelfed?
If I am not mistaken, it’s an open source Instagram alternative.
