The idea that they will destroy it by just… Being a bigger instance? Because they can influence development? Isn’t this shit developed by a tanky? A self-proclaimed stalinist? Why the hell would they capitulate to a megacorp? I’m more worried about the actual developers ruining this shit than Meta and Threads.
I mostly agree. The one thing I will say in favour of defederation is hate content. Meta has incredibly lax moderation. People can literally say “this person deserves to be killed”, or even “I would absolutely murder this person if I came across them” and Meta will be like “yeah we understand this may be disappointing to you, but we’re gonna allow that to stay” if you report it.
I saw that here, too. Thought about reporting when I saw the sidebar didn’t even have a rule against it (forgot which community though - my app doesn’t present that in an obvious way)
Even if you aren’t against federating with threads on principle part of the challenge is going to be able to keep up with moderating their entire user base en-masse and being able to afford the cost of federating content from so many users at once.
It’s a burden I doubt a lot of smaller instances can handle.
You make a very good point there. That’s probably the best reasoning to be against federating with them I’ve seen. It also brings up duplication of content. If they have so many users, would it be possible that a smaller instance getting content from them could literally fill up all their storage space, assuming it’s not a gigantic data center but something self-hosted? Text may not be problematic, but images from Instagram can be massive. I suppose if your instance was that small you’d already be picking and choosing what to federate with, though.
they could develop new features but intentionally implement them in a way that they are not compatible with other services. they could put all the other instances they federate with on rolling blackouts so that it seems like they are down when in fact it’s just them cutting the connection. doing just these two things with purpose could make it look like Facebook has the most advanced and stable instance. in addition, as you mentioned, it would also have the biggest populace. there would be pressure to abandon other instances to join that instance to stay in touch.
The people making the most noise about it don’t seem like they’re pressured one bit. Also, walling it off through defederation won’t stop any of what you propose may happen, anyway.
Why would that happen anyway? A lot of people already came here from bigger sites, like reddit for example. If we don’t federate, then why would people who are already here be pushed by something that isn’t there?
People want the fediverse to grow, so FB entering it is a good thing no? Otherwise realistically the fediverse will likely stagnate and always just take up a tiny bit of space.
The more people involved the better. Sometimes I feel this group just wants to shoot themselves in the foot.
But we’re talking our current problem but instead expanded into a community 80 times the size of the fediverse. That’s a little more hate than we’ve got now, no?
So what do you want exactly? Do you want the fediverse to remain small and irrelevant forever? Or do you want it to grow and become the dominant space with more bad actors but more useful actors as well?
Because you can’t have both, and you will always have more extremists and shitty views with larger groups. I for one think the fediverse is a better implementation of the social tech for pack of a better word, and would prefer its implementation over the closed wall implementation of non fediverse applications.
Outside of the odd troll here and there, fascism isn’t a huge problem (at least on lemmy). Exploding heads died in like a week and you haven’t really seen any popular resurgence of far right politics here since. Can’t speak for the rest of the fediverse but lemmy seems to have carved out a semi-comfy niche for itself
I haven’t seen far rights here myself, but it’s a self selecting bias.
I’ve definitely come across more far lefts here than any other platform I’ve used which are equally as bad as far right imo.
I’m always concerned if there is only one strong group representation like that though. I’d rather have no extremists obviously, but if we have one side at least allow the other, otherwise that sort of crap starts seeping elsewhere.
yeah if threads integration means that i could interact with my friends threads posts with mastodon account i don’t mind it. it’s not like they are gonna use mastodon. maybe there might be a chance that people on threads might visit mastodon once they are fed up with spams on threads.
I don’t mind the threads integration much actually.
The idea that they will destroy it by just… Being a bigger instance? Because they can influence development? Isn’t this shit developed by a tanky? A self-proclaimed stalinist? Why the hell would they capitulate to a megacorp? I’m more worried about the actual developers ruining this shit than Meta and Threads.
I mostly agree. The one thing I will say in favour of defederation is hate content. Meta has incredibly lax moderation. People can literally say “this person deserves to be killed”, or even “I would absolutely murder this person if I came across them” and Meta will be like “yeah we understand this may be disappointing to you, but we’re gonna allow that to stay” if you report it.
I saw that here, too. Thought about reporting when I saw the sidebar didn’t even have a rule against it (forgot which community though - my app doesn’t present that in an obvious way)
Even if you aren’t against federating with threads on principle part of the challenge is going to be able to keep up with moderating their entire user base en-masse and being able to afford the cost of federating content from so many users at once.
It’s a burden I doubt a lot of smaller instances can handle.
You make a very good point there. That’s probably the best reasoning to be against federating with them I’ve seen. It also brings up duplication of content. If they have so many users, would it be possible that a smaller instance getting content from them could literally fill up all their storage space, assuming it’s not a gigantic data center but something self-hosted? Text may not be problematic, but images from Instagram can be massive. I suppose if your instance was that small you’d already be picking and choosing what to federate with, though.
Yes, by being a bigger instance with piss poor moderation. We’d be overrun with trolls and spammers
they could develop new features but intentionally implement them in a way that they are not compatible with other services. they could put all the other instances they federate with on rolling blackouts so that it seems like they are down when in fact it’s just them cutting the connection. doing just these two things with purpose could make it look like Facebook has the most advanced and stable instance. in addition, as you mentioned, it would also have the biggest populace. there would be pressure to abandon other instances to join that instance to stay in touch.
The people making the most noise about it don’t seem like they’re pressured one bit. Also, walling it off through defederation won’t stop any of what you propose may happen, anyway.
Why would that happen anyway? A lot of people already came here from bigger sites, like reddit for example. If we don’t federate, then why would people who are already here be pushed by something that isn’t there?
Yeah I don’t understand the issue.
People want the fediverse to grow, so FB entering it is a good thing no? Otherwise realistically the fediverse will likely stagnate and always just take up a tiny bit of space.
The more people involved the better. Sometimes I feel this group just wants to shoot themselves in the foot.
I DON’T want the fediverse to grow if that growth is full of extremists, hate groups, porn bots, etc.
But the fediverse already has that lol. I’ve had arguments here with extremists many times.
You won’t just magically cure it by stopping FB from federating. Putting your fingers in your ears and closing your eyes doesn’t make it go away.
But we’re talking our current problem but instead expanded into a community 80 times the size of the fediverse. That’s a little more hate than we’ve got now, no?
So what do you want exactly? Do you want the fediverse to remain small and irrelevant forever? Or do you want it to grow and become the dominant space with more bad actors but more useful actors as well?
Because you can’t have both, and you will always have more extremists and shitty views with larger groups. I for one think the fediverse is a better implementation of the social tech for pack of a better word, and would prefer its implementation over the closed wall implementation of non fediverse applications.
I’d prefer remaining niche, thank you very much.
That’s completely fair. 👍
Meh. Tankies>fascists
You’ll have both though in the fediverse… So it’s pretty irrelevant. Just because you don’t see them doesn’t mean they don’t exist.
Outside of the odd troll here and there, fascism isn’t a huge problem (at least on lemmy). Exploding heads died in like a week and you haven’t really seen any popular resurgence of far right politics here since. Can’t speak for the rest of the fediverse but lemmy seems to have carved out a semi-comfy niche for itself
I haven’t seen far rights here myself, but it’s a self selecting bias.
I’ve definitely come across more far lefts here than any other platform I’ve used which are equally as bad as far right imo.
I’m always concerned if there is only one strong group representation like that though. I’d rather have no extremists obviously, but if we have one side at least allow the other, otherwise that sort of crap starts seeping elsewhere.
Lemmy already is full of extremists and hate groups. Perhaps you mean you don’t want hate groups you don’t agree with?
I was kind of hoping the hysteria would be over by now. Walled gardens are a bad thing, I’m pleased when holes are poked in them.
yeah if threads integration means that i could interact with my friends threads posts with mastodon account i don’t mind it. it’s not like they are gonna use mastodon. maybe there might be a chance that people on threads might visit mastodon once they are fed up with spams on threads.