About the only upside to this that I can think of is that maybe, just maybe, programmers will start being more frugal with their memory usage. Everything else just sucks.
Yeah, I think that’s the running theory of the corporate backup plan if/when AI falls through and they need to find a use for all the data center resources.
You’re right, but I think you underestimate the intersection of what’s theoretically possible and desperation.
We’ll probably see multiple different things. Some of the equipment will be repurposed for other cloud GPU workloads. We’ll probably see some companies try to make adapters and drivers to get the server hardware compatible with consumer desktops (there’s someone who did a writeup, either on hacker news or hack a day who got older server RAM working on a desktop with an adapter and Linux tomfoolery). Buy up the stuff being sold at a loss, strap their adapter on it, and sell for profit.
But on a low level, all this shit is turing complete. There will be performance losses and considerable overhead, but in theory translation layers and emulation should be able to be written to effectively convert GPU compute to whatever other format is needed.
If it’s taking a total loss vs squeezing the last squirts of profit out, I think there’s going to be attempts to squeeze.
The money is micro transactions and the whales have $7k gpus…
Everyone else is just fodder so the pay to win accounts have someone to feel better than.
COD a while ago got caught out for juicing the matchmaking odds right after you buy a new skin. Didn’t matter what you bought or how much. A purchase made your next couple lobbies be filled with scrubs on one side, and you and some above averages on the other.
After X amounts of games it wore off, and since those games pushed you up in the normal metrics, you’re now in lobbies above your skill level. So even if you get a “fair” game, you’re going to do badly, until you buy a skin again or lose to your actual skill level.
That’s why everyone started complaining about COD matchmaking, even if you bought nothing, everyone was on the same micro transaction maximizing rollercoaster.
A cynic would say that’s why it went free on Xbox, they need a population of players to make the whale milking work. Even if those people only fire it up a few hours a month and never buy anything, getting matched with someone above your skill level who just bought a stupid skin makes you the product they sell to the whales.
They’ll assume the poor sales have to do with the genre, the subject matter, millennials killing the gaming industry, literally ANYTHING but the actual reason their supposed customers keep yelling about.
programmers will start being more frugal with their memory usage.
They 100% will.
Windows had started only “certifying” machines with 32gb as “windows ready” because they wanted the headroom to cram on AI features and use what we pay for instead of a data center.
But because no one was buying 32gb machines and a machine without that sticker will end up with Linux…
They just dropped it, and now they’ll have to keep optimizing for 16gb instead of just letting everything bloat. If they don’t, they risk every entry level machine making people eventually switch to Linux for a much better experience. Windows has to run on entry level or people don’t get sucked in, no one converts to windows later in life.
That’s a huge deal, if 32gb was the default for windows it would be the default for everything. Every game and design/modeling program would feel safe to assume 32gb was the norm. Like, imagine what chrome would do assuming there’s 32gb to play with.
Now they can’t, and they’ll know requiring 32gb will cut off some possible consumers.
It’s not like Windows is the good guys tho, it never should have been 32, and arguably should be 8gb forever, even if it required a lightweight mode. Most people would prefer a super stripped down Windows even with 64gb. Most of the bloat is useless, I could live without any updates after we didn’t have to quit to DOS to launch a game.
Have seen multiple ones going back to Windows after years of Linux usage, usually those who saw Linux as not a tool, but a “hobby OS” to tinker with. The moment stuff became “way too easy”, they left. (Also they’re usually bigots, and didn’t like the “trans coder” stereotype.)
I am quite amazed at your knowledge and foresight. Really cool!
I never assumed such a scenario where ram limit will limit our infrastructure too.
What do you consider will happen with people who are actually needing ram but unable to afford? And that number reaches significantly higher volume, like 60% of population?
Like maybe an open source project of building ram seems feasible?
What will happen is they’ll start selling zero clients and a subscription to a virtual desktop, using all of the data centers left over after the AI bubble pops.
Unless someone decides to enter the chip fab industry just for consumer hardware, owning your own machine might not be a thing in a few years.
Not going to disagree, but “web usage” is basically everything. You can literally run an entire desktop operating system from 2007 on a virtual machine emulated in JavaScript in your browser now.
Windows had started only “certifying” machines with 32gb as “windows ready” because they wanted the headroom to cram on AI features and use what we pay for instead of a data center.
I think it was a comment on the use case for an app not really changing but the resources to run it bloating significantly… E.g. software running on a computer with MB of ram then and now the app alone requiring GB.
About the only upside to this that I can think of is that maybe, just maybe, programmers will start being more frugal with their memory usage. Everything else just sucks.
Nah. They’ll use AI to code everything, and now you need more RAM to continue…
People have to buy the games… if the machine doesn’t support it, nobody to buy it.
Why not rent and stream the games for only $99.99 per month. Subscribe now!
Well… Okay. But only if I can keep paying the subscription fee for the rest of my life in order to maintain access.
That’s why we’ve created the GenPro tier of subscriptions, the first generational loan. Get it now and your kids can help pay of back!
You still need to run streamed games in RAM. A lot of RAM.
Well…we’ll go back to Zork and Venture.
No you don’t. I can run moonlight on a potato. All the processing is server side.
But Zork needs 64Kb ram!
Yeah, I think that’s the running theory of the corporate backup plan if/when AI falls through and they need to find a use for all the data center resources.
An AI data center cannot be used to run virtual machines. Cannot be converted into a gaming streaming service. They don’t work that way
You’re right, but I think you underestimate the intersection of what’s theoretically possible and desperation.
We’ll probably see multiple different things. Some of the equipment will be repurposed for other cloud GPU workloads. We’ll probably see some companies try to make adapters and drivers to get the server hardware compatible with consumer desktops (there’s someone who did a writeup, either on hacker news or hack a day who got older server RAM working on a desktop with an adapter and Linux tomfoolery). Buy up the stuff being sold at a loss, strap their adapter on it, and sell for profit.
But on a low level, all this shit is turing complete. There will be performance losses and considerable overhead, but in theory translation layers and emulation should be able to be written to effectively convert GPU compute to whatever other format is needed.
If it’s taking a total loss vs squeezing the last squirts of profit out, I think there’s going to be attempts to squeeze.
since its mostly use for AI, it will likely be left to “rot” as there are no use for it anymore.
Streaming only replaces storage, you actually need more RAM than running it from fixed memory.
Nah, you just need to show it like a video basically.
There is always a latency issue.
https://www.pcgamer.com/heres-how-stadias-input-lag-compares-to-native-pc-gaming/
Not when the processing happens in one of the many data centers that’ll be sold off when the AI bubble bursts.
I fully expect them to start heavily advertising VDI in the near future.
The money is micro transactions and the whales have $7k gpus…
Everyone else is just fodder so the pay to win accounts have someone to feel better than.
COD a while ago got caught out for juicing the matchmaking odds right after you buy a new skin. Didn’t matter what you bought or how much. A purchase made your next couple lobbies be filled with scrubs on one side, and you and some above averages on the other.
After X amounts of games it wore off, and since those games pushed you up in the normal metrics, you’re now in lobbies above your skill level. So even if you get a “fair” game, you’re going to do badly, until you buy a skin again or lose to your actual skill level.
That’s why everyone started complaining about COD matchmaking, even if you bought nothing, everyone was on the same micro transaction maximizing rollercoaster.
A cynic would say that’s why it went free on Xbox, they need a population of players to make the whale milking work. Even if those people only fire it up a few hours a month and never buy anything, getting matched with someone above your skill level who just bought a stupid skin makes you the product they sell to the whales.
They’ll never understand that.
They’ll assume the poor sales have to do with the genre, the subject matter, millennials killing the gaming industry, literally ANYTHING but the actual reason their supposed customers keep yelling about.
They 100% will.
Windows had started only “certifying” machines with 32gb as “windows ready” because they wanted the headroom to cram on AI features and use what we pay for instead of a data center.
But because no one was buying 32gb machines and a machine without that sticker will end up with Linux…
They just dropped it, and now they’ll have to keep optimizing for 16gb instead of just letting everything bloat. If they don’t, they risk every entry level machine making people eventually switch to Linux for a much better experience. Windows has to run on entry level or people don’t get sucked in, no one converts to windows later in life.
That’s a huge deal, if 32gb was the default for windows it would be the default for everything. Every game and design/modeling program would feel safe to assume 32gb was the norm. Like, imagine what chrome would do assuming there’s 32gb to play with.
Now they can’t, and they’ll know requiring 32gb will cut off some possible consumers.
It’s not like Windows is the good guys tho, it never should have been 32, and arguably should be 8gb forever, even if it required a lightweight mode. Most people would prefer a super stripped down Windows even with 64gb. Most of the bloat is useless, I could live without any updates after we didn’t have to quit to DOS to launch a game.
If corporate lets them use Qt instead of Electron, yes. If not, we will continue to see memory usage rises all over the place.
That’s why you gotta start kids off right. Perfect starter laptop is the 10 year old clunker running Mint.
Have seen multiple ones going back to Windows after years of Linux usage, usually those who saw Linux as not a tool, but a “hobby OS” to tinker with. The moment stuff became “way too easy”, they left. (Also they’re usually bigots, and didn’t like the “trans coder” stereotype.)
No, you only need 4gb to run Win11.
The 32gb referred to gaming PC’s
Have you ever tried running win11 on 4gb? It runs about as fast as pouring molasses.
I am quite amazed at your knowledge and foresight. Really cool!
I never assumed such a scenario where ram limit will limit our infrastructure too. What do you consider will happen with people who are actually needing ram but unable to afford? And that number reaches significantly higher volume, like 60% of population?
Like maybe an open source project of building ram seems feasible?
What will happen is they’ll start selling zero clients and a subscription to a virtual desktop, using all of the data centers left over after the AI bubble pops.
Unless someone decides to enter the chip fab industry just for consumer hardware, owning your own machine might not be a thing in a few years.
That does make sense. That means cloud storage is cheaper, few years from now. And more tracking of our personal data.
Going to invest in Linux + HDD, because these things will only push us to subscription bs.
At this point i don’t see why we would need more RAM for basic OS or web usage tbh.
Like we’ve hit a point where things are covered. Obviously this won’t stop capitalists from doing capitalist bullshit though… and bloat is a thing.
Not going to disagree, but “web usage” is basically everything. You can literally run an entire desktop operating system from 2007 on a virtual machine emulated in JavaScript in your browser now.
Meanwhile as of 4 days ago: https://www.tomshardware.com/software/windows/microsoft-quietly-purges-32gb-of-ram-recommendations-from-its-website-company-reels-from-the-effects-of-the-memory-shortage-as-it-released-8gb-base-models-for-surface-laptops-this-year
Buddy, really?
Did you not understand it or just assume none of the later text kept explaining it so you immediately stopped ready?
It’s not just you, I see this shit all over these days, what the fuck are you people doing?
Everything is a Browser.
No chance.
Of course a chat program needs a 4GB electron app. That’s the bare minimum to match 1990s ICQ.
I remember moaning about icq gobbling 75k.
There are plenty of IRC clients that don’t use electron.
I think it was a comment on the use case for an app not really changing but the resources to run it bloating significantly… E.g. software running on a computer with MB of ram then and now the app alone requiring GB.
did you know Edge has a fucking task manager?
shift-esc to see the bullshit
It’s a fork of chromium, which has it.
AFAIK Firefox also has one.
Yeah so does ff
TIL, thanks!
That’s been my hope. Maybe get another wonder like Doom
Or just… Play Doom :)
wonder “like” Doom. Something that is efficiently created in the same capacity as Doom. Doesn’t even have to be a game.
Well theres Doom Emacs ;)
Not most. Most only concern themselves with “developer productivity”.
“how many commits have you done today workerslave_96?”