No, I’ve used them plenty before. I just found them to generally be a huge hassle of minimal benefit. They became much more useful in the context of agentic coding, where you want the agent to be able to immediately realize “oh, this change I made causes these specific problems when it’s run.” The hassle is all on the agent, not on me.
Could be. I’m a professional programmer whose usage runs the whole gamut - large applications with hundreds of programmers working on them for years, smaller apps that I make for my own use, and one-off scripts to do some particular task and then generally throw away afterwards.
I don’t do unit tests for that last category, of course. I don’t even use coding agents for those, generally speaking - a bit of back-and-forth in a chat interface is usually enough there.
Is this like a who’s got a bigger portfolio situation? I’m not sure how to respond
I guess I’ve been developing for decades including consulting for Page 6, a stint in RD at Sony Music. One of my open source contributions was used as part of the backend for one of Obama’s State of the Unions. I spend my time these days writing and maintaining multiple software stacks integrating across multiple platforms.
Since you brought up the notion that we might be doing different styles of development, I was giving you context as to the kinds of development that I do. Sounds like we might not be doing such different scales of development after all, but I couldn’t have known that until you gave that information just now.
This isn’t supposed to be some kind of duel or argument, I don’t see the point of that. I’m just explaining my usage of coding agents and specifically unit tests in that context. Since that’s what you were questioning.
Anyways, I couldnt possibly deploy with any confidence a large project or honestly a small project I expected someone to rely on without layers of test. Unintended consequences of even a small change are just a reality. And with the expectation to move quick with large legacy systems, if you don’t have tests that’s a dangerous high wire act.
Well, I’ve seen large projects without extensive unit tests before. The main time I remember a big project with them before coding agents they were largely a checkbox that developers implemented with a grumble when first deploying a new system and then that were slowly disabled one by one as later changes broke them.
These were stand-alone projects, though, with a large QA department and without an expectation of future versions directly descended from them once deployed. If it worked then it worked, that was all that was needed at the end of the day.
never had a large qa team. And my experience has when we have qa resources, people move to the new feature so it’s up to the developers to not break the critical features everyone forgets about until they break. And I’ve yet to meet a developer that has time to also be a full time qa resource
No, I’ve used them plenty before. I just found them to generally be a huge hassle of minimal benefit. They became much more useful in the context of agentic coding, where you want the agent to be able to immediately realize “oh, this change I made causes these specific problems when it’s run.” The hassle is all on the agent, not on me.
I think we do very different development.
Could be. I’m a professional programmer whose usage runs the whole gamut - large applications with hundreds of programmers working on them for years, smaller apps that I make for my own use, and one-off scripts to do some particular task and then generally throw away afterwards.
I don’t do unit tests for that last category, of course. I don’t even use coding agents for those, generally speaking - a bit of back-and-forth in a chat interface is usually enough there.
Is this like a who’s got a bigger portfolio situation? I’m not sure how to respond
I guess I’ve been developing for decades including consulting for Page 6, a stint in RD at Sony Music. One of my open source contributions was used as part of the backend for one of Obama’s State of the Unions. I spend my time these days writing and maintaining multiple software stacks integrating across multiple platforms.
Since you brought up the notion that we might be doing different styles of development, I was giving you context as to the kinds of development that I do. Sounds like we might not be doing such different scales of development after all, but I couldn’t have known that until you gave that information just now.
This isn’t supposed to be some kind of duel or argument, I don’t see the point of that. I’m just explaining my usage of coding agents and specifically unit tests in that context. Since that’s what you were questioning.
I see it seemed more like a weird flex.
Anyways, I couldnt possibly deploy with any confidence a large project or honestly a small project I expected someone to rely on without layers of test. Unintended consequences of even a small change are just a reality. And with the expectation to move quick with large legacy systems, if you don’t have tests that’s a dangerous high wire act.
I meant my first sentence to be an apology for jumping to conclusions but it clearly isn’t. It’s late. Sorry for the snarky response.
Well, I’ve seen large projects without extensive unit tests before. The main time I remember a big project with them before coding agents they were largely a checkbox that developers implemented with a grumble when first deploying a new system and then that were slowly disabled one by one as later changes broke them.
These were stand-alone projects, though, with a large QA department and without an expectation of future versions directly descended from them once deployed. If it worked then it worked, that was all that was needed at the end of the day.
never had a large qa team. And my experience has when we have qa resources, people move to the new feature so it’s up to the developers to not break the critical features everyone forgets about until they break. And I’ve yet to meet a developer that has time to also be a full time qa resource
Wow what a circlejerk this turned into.
Oh well, I guess that’s what everything really is the whole time.