You’re right I have no idea, I use it for scripts, it works well, you guys are all linux nerds talking about philosophy that I don’t care for
I need code to make a script, it works, end of story, I don’t care about your philosophy on less code more code better code worse code, and I’m pretty sure most businesses don’t care either
I’m a C++ programmer most of the time, but I also write scripts. Claude and even Gemini write better bash scripts than I do - better error handling, better commenting, better input sanitizing, better use of parameters - because, all that bash syntax is an annoying pile of illogical junk that I have to look up every time I go to use it, and what are AI agents really fast at doing? Looking stuff up.
sure let’s just burn down half a hectare of the amazon for a seven line script.
engineering philosophy is where the rubber hits the road. building software with the right philosophy can mean the difference between needing a datacenter or a raspberry pi for the same job. it directly translates to money saved in recurring costs.
The seven line script isn’t burning down the rainforest. Programmers are a 1% slice of AI token usage. A seven line script takes less datacenter power to generate than your monitor does to show you this message thread while you read it. What’s burning down the rainforest is billions of “ordinary” people using AI to make Rule 34 animations, graphic layout flyers for their next coffee date, research papers on obscure topics that will never be read by anyone, schemes to trade bitcoin, etc. etc. etc.
I glanced across one once, I doubt any of the demographics are entirely reliable, but even with the uncertainty it appears that programmers are but a small minority even among Claude users.
to be fair I use https://www.ecosia.org/ which is climate positive so anything else I do on the web is carbon negative, however I also have solar and a battery and export power at night so I am technically climate positive (I reduce more emissions than I make)
also I mainly use lechat tbh, it’s french and aims to be climate friendly:
The project will support large-scale AI model training and inference workloads, leveraging Sweden’s renewable energy capacity and EcoDataCenter’s established footprint in sustainable data center operations. The facility is expected to be powered primarily by renewable energy sources, aligning with both companies’ commitments to reducing the carbon intensity of AI compute.
If the grid is more green, the data centres are more green, and in the most tech heavy place on earth:
The growing portfolio of grid-scale batteries in California, the world’s fourth biggest economy, hit a stunning new peak earlier this week, reaching a share of 44 pct of evening demand at once stage in the early evening.
It’s not my fault Americans are innovative enough to come up with a magic computer code box but not smart enough to install a bunch of solar panels and batteries :\
I am technically climate positive (I reduce more emissions than I make)
by some measures. Look at the food you eat, cost of transport, energy costs to produce, maintain and eventually recycle your energy and dwelling infrastructure. Do you eat at restaurants? Not only what you consume there, but the energy costs for the restaurant to operate, maintain their structure, maintain the roads for you and the employees to get to and from, costs of employee transit…
You are making an effort, which is admirable and sadly rare. You are highly unlikely to be cradle to grave climate positive. We all emit CO2 which is balanced by natural processes from phytoplankton to rainforests to the African Violet on your windowsill. Unless you maintain and protect a large swath of nature (we used to own 20 acres of undeveloped forest… that didn’t completely balance our footprint, but it probably did more than ecosia…) you are party to more CO2 emission than carbon recapture.
so fun fact, i live within walking distance of that dc project (close enough that i was invited to attend a presentation by edc on what it would do to the immediate area) and i’ve done the math on the grid load. the hydro plants in the city currently meets about 40% of its needs. edc wants 750MW of reserve power generation (that’s diesel) installed on the site. if we assume that’s double their average usage, they will still more than double the energy needs of the city. and that’s in the middle of an infrastructure crisis that means we’re stuck buying german coal.
ecosia has always felt kinda skeevy to me, because tree planting isn’t actually carbon positive. it becomes positive after 40 or so years, granted that the trees are not cut down. which is usually what happens. also, just like ddg, ecosia is dependent on bing, the search provider with the worst carbon footprint, to function.
and i probably don’t need to tell you what cobalt mining does to the environment or the people who handle it.
so it does help to look deeper at the things in your daily life :)
Both. So, if you - or other meatbags - write the code, AI agents can review it faster / more thoroughly (therefore: better) than human reviewers, finding more problems and proposing fixes.
If you accept every fix your reviewer proposes, human or AI, you’re an idiot. But if you ignore every bug a human or AI reviewer raises as a possibility, you’re an even bigger idiot. If your code has no bugs, you’re a liar.
Question is do we need more code, or better code?
The key to successful use of AI is: use it to write better code, not more code. This means iterations - just like when humans write code.
Who are you asking that question to? I don’t care about your code, make it as shitty as you want
Less code is better code. And you’re response indicates you do not understand that point.
You’re right I have no idea, I use it for scripts, it works well, you guys are all linux nerds talking about philosophy that I don’t care for
I need code to make a script, it works, end of story, I don’t care about your philosophy on less code more code better code worse code, and I’m pretty sure most businesses don’t care either
I’m a C++ programmer most of the time, but I also write scripts. Claude and even Gemini write better bash scripts than I do - better error handling, better commenting, better input sanitizing, better use of parameters - because, all that bash syntax is an annoying pile of illogical junk that I have to look up every time I go to use it, and what are AI agents really fast at doing? Looking stuff up.
🤣 so true!
I picked up python fairly quickly but bash my gosh
sure let’s just burn down half a hectare of the amazon for a seven line script.
engineering philosophy is where the rubber hits the road. building software with the right philosophy can mean the difference between needing a datacenter or a raspberry pi for the same job. it directly translates to money saved in recurring costs.
The seven line script isn’t burning down the rainforest. Programmers are a 1% slice of AI token usage. A seven line script takes less datacenter power to generate than your monitor does to show you this message thread while you read it. What’s burning down the rainforest is billions of “ordinary” people using AI to make Rule 34 animations, graphic layout flyers for their next coffee date, research papers on obscure topics that will never be read by anyone, schemes to trade bitcoin, etc. etc. etc.
i’ve not actually looked at the demographics. is that available somewhere?
I glanced across one once, I doubt any of the demographics are entirely reliable, but even with the uncertainty it appears that programmers are but a small minority even among Claude users.
what’s everyone else doing then? isn’t it specifically for code?
that would probably be a couple hundred tokens so the same energy use as a google search
a google ai search, sure. a normal web search uses several orders of magnitude less energy.
to be fair I use https://www.ecosia.org/ which is climate positive so anything else I do on the web is carbon negative, however I also have solar and a battery and export power at night so I am technically climate positive (I reduce more emissions than I make)
also I mainly use lechat tbh, it’s french and aims to be climate friendly:
https://dcpulse.com/news/mistral-ai-ecodc-ai-facility-sweden
If the grid is more green, the data centres are more green, and in the most tech heavy place on earth:
https://reneweconomy.com.au/grid-batteries-reach-stunning-new-peak-of-44-pct-of-evening-demand-in-worlds-fourth-biggest-economy/
They’re rapidly getting pretty green
It’s not my fault Americans are innovative enough to come up with a magic computer code box but not smart enough to install a bunch of solar panels and batteries :\
by some measures. Look at the food you eat, cost of transport, energy costs to produce, maintain and eventually recycle your energy and dwelling infrastructure. Do you eat at restaurants? Not only what you consume there, but the energy costs for the restaurant to operate, maintain their structure, maintain the roads for you and the employees to get to and from, costs of employee transit…
You are making an effort, which is admirable and sadly rare. You are highly unlikely to be cradle to grave climate positive. We all emit CO2 which is balanced by natural processes from phytoplankton to rainforests to the African Violet on your windowsill. Unless you maintain and protect a large swath of nature (we used to own 20 acres of undeveloped forest… that didn’t completely balance our footprint, but it probably did more than ecosia…) you are party to more CO2 emission than carbon recapture.
so fun fact, i live within walking distance of that dc project (close enough that i was invited to attend a presentation by edc on what it would do to the immediate area) and i’ve done the math on the grid load. the hydro plants in the city currently meets about 40% of its needs. edc wants 750MW of reserve power generation (that’s diesel) installed on the site. if we assume that’s double their average usage, they will still more than double the energy needs of the city. and that’s in the middle of an infrastructure crisis that means we’re stuck buying german coal.
ecosia has always felt kinda skeevy to me, because tree planting isn’t actually carbon positive. it becomes positive after 40 or so years, granted that the trees are not cut down. which is usually what happens. also, just like ddg, ecosia is dependent on bing, the search provider with the worst carbon footprint, to function.
and i probably don’t need to tell you what cobalt mining does to the environment or the people who handle it.
so it does help to look deeper at the things in your daily life :)
Stop talking as if you give any semblance of a shit about the art and craft of programming. You clearly don’t.
upvoted because you’re right, i don’t care?
edit: javascript sucks btw i hate it, it can suck MY art and craft
It’s substantially faster than most programmers at finding bugs too.
*creating
Both. So, if you - or other meatbags - write the code, AI agents can review it faster / more thoroughly (therefore: better) than human reviewers, finding more problems and proposing fixes.
If you accept every fix your reviewer proposes, human or AI, you’re an idiot. But if you ignore every bug a human or AI reviewer raises as a possibility, you’re an even bigger idiot. If your code has no bugs, you’re a liar.
*finding
https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/claude-ai-finds-vim-emacs-rce-bugs-that-trigger-on-file-open/
more fuel for the vim-emacs holy war