Yesterday they made higher education less accessible to non-whites, today they made it harder for the poor…
I wonder if there’s a pattern here.
Yes, higher education is now less accessible to non-whites. Which is good, because affirmative action was never a fair solution to the issue and was simply unfair in principle imo. We shouldn’t raise the eligibility of people based on their race, college admissions and race should have nothing to do with one another. Class-based affirmative action actually makes sense instead of deciding off race.
Your whole argument could have been just that last sentence and I’d bet you’d have significantly less downvotes.
Although I’m disappointed by the courts decision I do believe class basis is a better measuring stick for AA. That said, I think there would be a pretty close correlation between the people who benefit now and the people who would benefit if the system was based on socioeconomic class.
I wholeheartedly agree that minorities are often at a disadvantage in our society, and that there is a correlation between race and socioeconomic status in the USA. I think that if true equality is to be achieved, we need to stop separating people (at least in important processes like legal proceedings, college admissions, etc.) by their race at all. It sets a bad precedent, and I hope for a future where no race has any connotation with any socioeconomic class.
I agree with you in theory, but striking down AA without a better solution in place is bad. Don’t let perfect be the enemy of good.
We have class based affirmative action. Rich people buy their kids into school all the time.
Yes, higher education is now less accessible to non-whites. Which is good,
Jesus H. Christ. Either stop being a racist or learn to organize your thoughts.
You literally cut his quote in the middle of the sentence. He says its good specifically because it was not a result of fair treatment, right after you cut him off.
The world is upside down when you can someone saying “it’s unfair to judge people by race” a racist.
I think you can call someone saying “it’s unfair to judge people by race” a racist when they’re using that line to applaud the removal of protections against institutional racism. We can argue the merits of AA as a form of protection, but it was protection nonetheless. To say that it was unfair is to entirely ignore the unfairness which necessitated its existence.
Lmao is reading comprehension not your thing? Because my meaning was very clear and not at all racist.
How was it not? How is non-whites having less access good?
You follow what I quoted by claiming it wasn’t fair (“imo”) because, as you say, “we shouldn’t raise the eligibility of people based on their race” which is great if you ignore the fact that nearly every institution in the US treats people differently based on race, whether intentional or not. It is exceedingly rare for that bias to swing in the favor of non-whites.
With no meaningful alternative to AA, what exacxtly is the win here?
Non-whites having less access is good in this context, because they were being unfairly given an advantage before. I agree with your premise about bias, but why should the solution to that be to artificially inflate the people being discriminated against, instead of trying to provide a system that doesn’t have room for discrimination?
Class based alternative action, along with anonymizing applicant details pertinent to their race is a meaningful alternative to AA.
I agree on the last point, but there isn’t a class based system in place, nor is there a plan to implement one (that I can find).
That, I shall continue to argue, makes this very not good.
I agree with no proper replacement this will overall have a negative effect. I think the method race-based AA uses was very flawed.
Why does this make it harder for the poor to access higher education? A debt forgiveness will make current debtors less burdened but will probably make it more expensive for new applicants. Isn’t it the other way around?
Relieving debt for the poor would allow them to spend their money on other things, or save it. Best case scenario, they’re able to support their kids’ educations and help break the generational cycle of poverty.
I believe he’s referencing the decision on the Harvard affirmative action case, not the student debt relief decision. Supreme Court has been busy this week!
Chances are loan forgiveness would push a conversation regarding tuition fees in general, and would ultimately make university free / affordable instead.
Maybe.
There is 0 chance that would happen with our current political climate.
Well, around 20 states right now offer free community college if you’re a resident through first/last dollar programs. Meaning, they will cover the costs after any other financial aid. Other qualifications vary.
Some States schools offer debt relief if you hold a regional residency for X-years (usually 5) after graduation. So for example, if there’s an area of a State that needs more investment (like Upstate NY versus Downstate), these programs are designed to increase GDP and strengthen the talent pool.
Of course, you can get a tuition waiver in like half the states if you’re over 60. 🙄
I’m not saying any of this is ideal by any stretch if the imagination. Just saying there’s some headway here and there in terms of precedent for tuition-free college education.
Honestly, this decision wouldn’t probably impact future college attendees. But, there are other changes coming to federal borrowing that likely will. Income based repayment is being restructured and it’s looking pretty good.
However, this will probably hurt the economy. A lot of people are about to hit repayment at a period of high inflation. It’s not a great economy. And, if a lot of people decide to ignore their student loan bills a la 2008 financial crisis, were in for a global economic doozy.
It will impact future college attendees insofar as being more poor impacts your chances of going to college. It won’t directly impact future college attendees, but there is a knock on effect which will to some extent.
Can’t believe this was down voted for asking a legitimate question related to the topic. This isn’t reddit.
Support for Biden’s student loan cancellation is for most a political calculation, where people who would be for more robust measures to make college affordable support it as a partial measure, a step in the right direction. A common right wing tactic is to stymie left wing political priorities to the point where asking questions like this seems reasonable, even though the asker is often being disingenuous and would be against any affordable college plan that increased government spending or in which the government played an otherwise larger role. If this commenter wasn’t being disingenuous, they had the unfortunate plight of absorbing a lot of built-up frustration over this tactic haha
Fuck Trump and his supreme court. We’re going to be suffering the effects of Republican stupidity for the next 40 years.
It’s Republican moral bankruptcy and cruelty that we will all suffer. If anyone’s stupidity got us here, it’s the Democratic Party’s stupid leadership since AT LEAST 2000, if not earlier. Republicans have telegraphed their intentions for 50 fuckin years and Democrats continued over and over to attempt reaching across the aisle, trying to pass bipartisan wins, “take the high road,” … all the while the Republican party continued putting their racist, xenophobic, mysoginistic, jingoistic, classist platform out year after year, abandoning all sense of decorum and norms, gerrymandering the fuck out of every district possible, blocking every bill that helps anyone aside from billionaires and corporations, and generally lying and cheating their way to what we have today.
since AT LEAST 2000
Democrats: It’s just a coincidence that two lawyers who worked on the Supreme Court case that handed Bush the election in 2000 happen to be Supreme Court Justices today!
I think, if there’s independent historians in the future looking back, they’ll be mentioned in the same sentence as Neville Chamberlain often.
If you need any reason not to believe in god, it’s that Trump got to appoint THREE FUCKING SUPREME COURT JUSTICES
Rabbits
Wow. The SCOTUS is firing through all sorts of shitty changes this week. They’re like the koolaid man on meth.
Gonna be this way for the foreseeable future
Unless the dems take back court we would be all living through a nightmare.
Maybe Hilldawg could have campaigned in Wisconsin or taken seriously that even if she won the popular vote, that the Electoral College actually mattered.
Reminder, she did win the popular vote. The majority did vote for her.
Or maybe Obama could have kept his campaign promise that codifying Roe vs. Wade in law was his first order of business.
I fail to see why you’re turning this around on her. She simply stated a fact that became reality.
This happens every election cycle. We do our job by electing them. They are privy to what will happen and fail to act when they have the power to do so. Who else do we blame? The universe?
If Hillary were president instead of Trump we wouldn’t see this stacked court.
That has nothing to do with Obama’s promise or whatever.
It has everything to do with Obama’s promise. By not following through on his promise to legislate it into law, the opportunity to reverse the previous court decision was always a thing that could happen. Acting like them not taking the opportunity when they had it means its the fault of the voting public is pure bullshit.
Instead, Obama used his political capital to pass Romneycare, which while it helped a lot of poor people, has made the insurance market even worse for many, who still have insurance that they can’t afford to actually use.
Dont forget to thank RBG, who refused to retire under Obama for some fucking reason, only to get owned by COVID after officiating a wedding for some dumb liberals (while having an immune system shredded by cancer)
Well it gave us the funniest trump interview imo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=knlJWu815C0
If there is a minimum age in government, there needs to be a maximum. I’m over these 70 year olds running things.
Downvoted by people who refuse to look at when Democrats make stupid decisions that fuck us.
I thought Lemmy was supposed to be full of tankies, not milquetoast centrist capitalist apologists…
Just like when Dems had congress and the presidency but refused to make law to defend abortion saying the supreme court wouldn’t overrule it. Oopsy poopsy.
They can downvote away, I will never not shit on Ginsberg (also libtards infect spaces just like right wingers)
libtards
I’m onboard with the spirit of the post, but I encourage you to find another insult
agree, how do you feel about shitlib?
He’s not wrong, just an asshole.
Vote! Encourage those around you to vote. Help drive someone to the polls. If you know a young person who’s never voted, get them to vote.
Don’t care who they vote for, just get them to the ballot box.
The more people vote, the better things turn out for the majority.
I know this will likely upset many Dems but:
Dems have the Senate and the Presidency and are completely within their power to pack the Supreme Court and basically alter all of the terrible rulings the Supreme Court has made lately. The problem is that many Dems do not think it is worth packing the court for women, students, or the environment. You can’t just vote your way out of this as you would literally have to pack up and move to West Virginia to vote for a Senator who would be ultimately determining this.
The system is ultimately flawed and just voting isn’t enough.
A) They need 50 senators willing to entertain that notion. They only have 49. B) If there were one action that I think would be most likely to kick off Civil War 2, it would be packing the court.
That’s a very selective way of saying the Dems aren’t responsible because Dems wont support students, the environment, or women’s rights.
Civil War 2 is already happening, you must not be paying attention.
It’s time to rip off the fucking band-aid and do something about it instead of letting the Proud Boys, the Three Percenters, and others run around terrorizing the country through wanton violence and death.
Just because it’s not a “hot” civil war yet doesn’t mean it’s not happening. One side isn’t fighting back, that’s for sure.
With that being said, you’re also correct that voting is NOT enough. Protesting and direct action, mutual aid, and more are all required!
They are not completely within their power to pack the court, sadly. They would have done so already if this were the case. They need 60 in the senate as well as a majority in the house and the presidency. Then they could.
Excuse me but to my knowledge the House is not needed for appoint judges, the president nominates and the Senate votes to appoint. The Senate would simply need a majority and I’m pretty sure Dems have the majority in the Senate.
The House is not needed to appoint justices, but the size of the Supreme Court is set by federal law, and you need the House to change that law to go beyond nine justices.
Technically, they don’t need 60. The cloture rule is what necessitates a 3/5ths supermajority to pass bills, but the cloture rule is not itself a law and so Senators can just… change it with a simple-majority vote. This has already happened twice in the recent past: once in 2013 when the Democrat-led Senate voted to eliminate the cloture rule when nominating federal circuit judges and once more in 2017 when the Ruplican-led Senate voted to eliminate the cloture rule when nominating supreme court justices.
FWIW: Senators tend to really hate doing this. They call it the “nuclear option” because they normally like to get a 2/3rds supermajority agreement before changing any standing Senate rules – not to mention that the cloture rule itself is often treated as a total third-rail even among the other important Senate procedures. Combining the nuclear option and killing cloture is a massive political powderkeg waiting to explode… but maybe it should?
I guess full throated fascism and authoritarianism isn’t enough to consider a “nuclear option.”
I like how when Democrats are in power, they’re unable to do anything…
But when Republicans are in power, they break the law at lightning speed, do things they’re not supposed to do, and nobody stops them because actually the only thing staying in their way are “rules” and “decorum” and not “laws” and yet mysteriously the Democrats are always beholden to “laws” that prevent them from doing the same. Also it seems like Democrats hands are tied at actually bringing criminal charges against Republicans because that would be “partisan.”[1] Just look at how they’ve slow-walked Trump’s prosecution and only went for it when it became clear he would never comply.
It’s a fucking farce.
Of course it upsets the Dems knowing that they’re on the only side that has to govern well and we honest.
But the alternative is for our side to be as much of a malignant tumor on the country as the other side is.
I’ll take this version of the Democratic party, despite the fact the Republicans are trying to destroy the US and rebuild it in their own image.
Our side?
I’m sorry, I don’t side with oligarchs.
I don’t side with oligarchs.
Joe Manchin sure does. Nancy Pelosi sure does. Chuck Schumer sure does.
Oopsie poopsie.
Gotta make sure your investments are safe by being a member of congress.
Wouldn’t the Rs just do the same thing next time they have power? I get what you’re saying, but isn’t setting that precedent dangerous?
Yes- the court is an illegitimate anti-democratic institution and the long-term goal should be its abolishment.
It is the final tool of the American oligarchs to prevent needed structural change in the country.
Anything to highlight this is a good thing. Playing ping-pong with court expansion would be great to accelerate its necessary demise.
I agree
You’re saying that as if the Rs won’t do the same thing anyway without prior provocation. They’ve literally already broken the law to pack the court and the Democrats sat on their hands. They denied Obama picking a justice because it was “too close to an election” when the election was like six months away, but let Trump pick one when an election was already underway.
Take off the fucking blinders, the Republicans already do these kind of things.
They already set the precedent.
R’s don’t care about precedent. That’s why they actually get what they want. If Democrats actually got things done, they would consistently win elections and it would be be an issue anyway.
It’s not going to happen anyway, though.
Republicans are channeling full fucking fascism and you think the only thing keeping them from packing the already packed republican court is because Dems haven’t done it first?
Fair enough.
Without a socialist party (as in, completely purged and free of all bourgeois influence), there’s isn’t a whole lot worth voting for at the federal level. Democrats repeatedly show that they are incapable of resisting the Republicans and take L’s constantly (see here).
I encourage everyone to instead organize with local political orgs that can eventually build this power. The DSA being the largest currently available (and just as flawed as the other options one may have, ofc)
Your see here link is empty and you accidentally double-posted this comment, friend.
deleted by creator
Could expand on that? Any good methods to vote out a Supreme Court Justice?
But the forgiven PPP loans are A-OK, right? Fuck this shit.
How many were paid off by the student loan companies.
I was under the impression the student loan companies did not care. They were getting paid regardless.
Maybe that is correct. I’m not sure who was giving the money back.
The government was going to pay off the loans. This is why MOHELA publicly said it was all the same to them. Internally they projected increase revenue from forgiveness.
Friendly reminder Biden lost the battle but he hasn’t lost the war. He is currently working out an income related savings plan and doing a hail mary long shot roundabout come in the back door play using the Authority he has from the Higher Education Act to create debt forgiveness regulation. He’s still out there trying, though anything through the Dept of Education will take a while because of how policy works there.
I’m typically a swing voter, but not anymore
Hope y’all are ready for another once in a lifetime market crash.
Prices still haven’t gone down from the pandemic era but wages have stayed stagnant. People are barely getting by as it is, but now they have another 2-600 monthly bill added on top of everything else?
Guess we didn’t learn a thing from 2008.
Lol I made the mistake of going back to grad school, so more like $2500-$3000 a month for me
Jesus Christ how much did you borrow???
Enough for law school. Actually worked jobs to pay off my undergrad debt just to do so. Womp womp.
Who here still thinks republicans should be allowed to vote and hold elected office and write and pass laws?
Show of hands?
Great, everyone who raised their hand deserves this shit. Everyone wants to hate on Republicans, but when it comes to the voting booth, everyone defends them to the death. Well this is what you get. But DeMoCrAcY is more important than anything and everything, right?
Come on, you play right into their bullshit propaganda with that message. If they go low we don’t stoop to their level. We do not win elections by removing voting rights for those we disagree with - that is an authoritarian tactic.
“sure, we let fascism run rampant over society, but that was the respectable thing to do”
there isn’t really any ‘nobility’ in ‘taking the high road’ while marginalized communities continue to get owned and killed. Trans kids are being targeted, women are being targeted, BIPOC are being targeted.
what good is civility? authoritarian leftism is the only way to get results
I don’t have kids but am perfectly happy to pay more tax to make education free or cheaper. How can anyone argue that a less educated society is better? The more people that can experience higher education is plainly a good thing. There could be someone out there who could make a medical or technological breakthrough but doesn’t get the chance because they can’t afford to go to college.
I think the main argument is that this isn’t the way to go about that. The universities are totally out of control and need to be forced to curb their spending to make things more affordable before we just start handing them public funding like this.
Well I think this move is only going to hurt people in the short run, it was just asking for further dive in a recession, I do agree with this sentiment of it.
Tuition prices are absolutely insane. Colleges and universities are spending money on ridiculous nonsense, and that needs to be reigned in severely before Just throwing billions more taxpayer dollars at them.
That said, these funds weren’t going to the universities. They were going to the banks, so cutting this off isn’t going to influence tuition rates in any way.
need to be forced to curb their spending to make things more affordable
How? Students are choosing more expensive places. The market is driving this.
I don’t really think anyone in the government has a good solution for this, do they?
Remove the available money? Only the rich go to college. Add more money? The prices go up.
You could try regulating it, but then you just get colleges that refuse to accept government money, while simultaneously asking for the same amount.
I’m sure someone has a solution that would work, but it’s not anyone with the power to implement it, that’s for sure.
just make public universities cheaper, private sector will feel the competition and lower prices.
I honestly don’t think so. Private universities are already more expensive, why would they care if that gap widened more?
My “favorite” part of the majority ruling is how the loan forgiveness was struck down because it would harm the loan servicers. Not the government, not the people, the companies that have been contracted to collect the loans. That’s who SCOTUS is most concerned with. Should tell us everything we need to know about who’s interests are most important - capitalists
Not only did they admit that MOHELA didn’t have standing, MOHELA itself said this wouldn’t impact them and they didn’t ask to be part of the case.
Funny how it turns out that standing doesn’t matter when they don’t want it to.
Kinda similar to the other case they dropped this morning, allowing LGBT discrimination… despite the fact that it turns out that no gay person ever actually asked this bakery to make them a website for their wedding. When contacted, the man who purportedly sent the email claimed he never sent it and has been married to a woman for years. They don’t even give a shit if it’s made up they will sign off on it.
I always vote for Democrats up and down the ballot. But this just confirms my choice once again. Hopefully the 26 million people the Republicans screwed over will come to the same conclusion.
they won’t they don’t care to go anywhere near reality. It would never fit their perception of the world.
I disagree. I was raised in a strongly Republican family. Fox News was perpetually on in my house, and Rush Limbaugh was a staple in the car. It took me until my 20s to start thinking for myself politically, and many years later, I now despise the Republican party and have gained the confidence to be outspoken about it. (I’m quite introverted, so that’s kind of a big deal for me.)
For example, I grew up praying in Catholic churches for an end to abortion without really understanding its need as a medical procedure. It was only through education that I learned it isn’t the horror show I had been told it is.
I’m just one person, but I know there must be more like me. People do change their views, and I hope more formerly brainwashed people like myself can be encouraged to change as well. There’s still hope. Encourage people through education, not insults.
I am like you! My dad_loved_Rush Limbaugh. But I was raised nondenominational. Became a Calvinist for a little while, worked at a Christian summer camp. Then got my first job at a U-Haul where my coworkers mostly POC. I met my future husband there, who helped me see how fucked up my upbringing was. Honestly it’s been twelve years and I’m still uncovering shit.
But yeah, change is possible, just difficult. It’s difficult to leave your tribe because they’re fuckwits.
